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cdb1386
Oct 22, 2002, 3:01 PM
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What is the best haul rope?
Diameter?
Manufacturer?
Thanks
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thrillseeker05
Oct 22, 2002, 3:14 PM
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The best haul rope is actually an old climbing rope that you have retired.
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atg200
Oct 22, 2002, 3:20 PM
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thrillseeker is 100% wrong. it is critical that the haul line is a static rope.
i personally prefer a 10.5mm static line because i also use static lines to fix pitches on desert towers and i hate jugging skinny ropes. manufacturer doesn't matter - i buy whatever is cheap because i trash them quickly fixing.
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punk
Oct 22, 2002, 3:28 PM
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dittos atg200
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heinz57
Oct 22, 2002, 3:32 PM
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interesting that someone put this question - most probably a wannabe bigwall-climber.
1. haul-line should be static
2. diameter not so important, better consider the weight.
3. 8mm good on steep walls - bags never touch the wall, jugging up in the air OK. carrying while climbing very fine.
4. 9mm better, no problems for rope to go over edges long time. better for the jumars.
5. the fatter a rope the more they tend to behave like a cable.
5. rope fabrication standards nowadays do not call for 10.5mm or 11mm.
6. for toproping better static rope, 9 to 10 mm.
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dsafanda
Oct 22, 2002, 3:46 PM
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Go easy on thrillseeker. The truth is that his answer is just as valid. Climbers have been using their old dynamic 11mm ropes as haul lines for many years. I know people that have been up ElCap dozens of times who have never used a static line. On my first wall I used a dynamic rope.
I am now convinced that static lines make the job a hell of a lot easier and that's what I'll use from now on but there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a dynamic rope to haul.
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cdb1386
Oct 22, 2002, 4:00 PM
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I was thinking of purchasing the Sterling 10.1 mm superstatic.
[ This Message was edited by: cdb1386 on 2002-10-22 09:00 ]
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atg200
Oct 22, 2002, 4:32 PM
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ok, you *can* use an old lead line to haul, but why? you can also make a portaledge out of a lawn chair and duct tape or a haul bag out of a duffel bag and duct tape, but i don't really recommend that either. it is so much easier to use a static and they are dirt cheap - buy a static line.
the sterling superstatic is a fine choice. the manufacturer doesn't really matter.
using an 8mm static line is ballsy. its plenty strong, but i will not jug an 8mm line because it just wigs me out.
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passthepitonspete
Oct 22, 2002, 7:08 PM
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Andrew's analogy is perfect.
Just because you could use a dynamic rope for hauling, does not mean you should.
The reason for this is very simple:
Hauling with a dynamic rope is more work!
See, every time that rope stretches, you are losing your hard won height, and you are doing extra work. [and if you know anything about me, you know I abhor doing any work, let alone extra...]
It's also important to realize that the 2:1 Hauling Ratchet will NOT work with dynamic rope! There is just too much stretch.
Now, let's talk about rope diameter.
I've used 'em all for hauling, from 8 mm right up to 11 mm.
Heinz' comments are all valid - the thicker the rope, the heavier it is, and the more like cable it behaves. It does require a bit more work to bend a thicker rope around the pulley, but not a lot. Better to get a bigger pulley like that used in a Kong Block Roll.
I have used 8 mm on the steep and virtually continuously overhanging Southeast Face of El Cap. And while it is sufficient, even the smallest nicks get you to thinking when you're dangling so far in space!
When I soloed Native Son, which is one of the steepest routes on the Captain, I used an 8 mil static. Let me tell you, it scared the livin' bejeepers out of me when I had to rappel down on that skinny little thing two thousand feet off the deck! Now, this is part of the game when you solo - terrifying rappels down to clean - but when I see the nicks in the rope, it makes ya think. I was actually getting a bit nervous because of the nicks.
I would NOT solo a wall with an 8 mm rope again.
Next, let's go to the opposite end. I have used 11 mm caving ropes for hauling, and they are overkill.
So now we're left in the middle - 9 mm or 10 mm.
After extensive research and testing, the Dr. Piton endorsement goes to 10 mm. This is what I will stick with for now and forevermore, amen.
I prefer a beefier rope as it will last longer - plain and simple. I do not believe that the cost or weight savings justify moving to 8 mm or 9 mm. This remains true for me whether I am making free hanging hauls like Heinz did on the Trip, or whether I am hauling up choss.
Make sure you buy the right kind of static line! PMI, which is now owned by Petzl, makes this abrasion resistant caving rope that makes a steel rebar seem flexible.
What you want is the E-Zed Bend kind that is more supple, and is designed for hauling rather than jugging, though it is fine for jugging.
Heinz is one of Dr. Piton's "patients" and learned the Better Way to jug a fixed free-hanging rope, even if he couldn't replicate the system's efficiency on his own the next day!
Look to see lots more of Heinz57 around this place! Heinz is Emphatically The Shit, and has my admiration for more than merely his climbing prowess....
heh heh....
Note: You can find one of Heinz' quotes featured in Dr. Piton's Quote of the Day.
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glockaroo
Oct 23, 2002, 12:55 PM
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Another tip: be sure that the static rope you buy is a vividly different color than your lead rope and tag line. This will make life easier on the wall.
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addiroids
Oct 24, 2002, 4:26 AM
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I bought that Petzl Abrasion Resistant 10mm rope and it is pretty good stuff. Sure, it is stiff as the cables on the Golden Gate Bridge, but it's abrasion resistance probably saved my ass from the big one on W Face of LT when I jugged as the third and didn't know there was an edge (big ledge on pitch that the rope was running over. Dynamic would have killed me for sure. Rope got a bit abraided, but nothing a little duct tape won't help.
And to answer the "different color" thing. It was white when I bought it. It's now grey/black. As long as I don't lead on a black rope, I'm gravy.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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apollodorus
Oct 24, 2002, 6:15 AM
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11mm static. When you're jugging the sucka on a steep wall, the extra girth and low bounce is going to keep you from going completely insane. Only a fool would figure a haul rope is only for hauling on the Wall.
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gunked
Oct 26, 2002, 3:11 AM
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Hey guys, if the Petzl traxion or pro-traxion is being used, then use a static 10.2 (approximately) or smaller diameter. Apparently 11's could fail with this device according to Petzl. Gettin' the information out! Go to Petzl's link for technical info.
http://www.petzl.com/petzl/statique/popup/EN/P51-en.htm
Jason
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karlbaba
Oct 28, 2002, 2:29 AM
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I've hauled with both static and dynamic ropes and had sucess with both. There is another side to this story that I think I should share.
Disadvantages of static haul line:
1. If your lead line gets cut, you are SCREWED since you can't swap the haul line into lead line duty. If you were hauling with an old lead line, you could swap and just pass the knot on the damaged lead line (now haul line) on long pitches.
2. The fact that statics don't stretch under high loads can turn into a liability in certain accidental situations. (That happen sometimes eh Pete?) Climbers have been saved when their lead line failed and the haul line caught them. The static line would likely kill you! That's a big difference. Another example, say you have the bag rigged with a fi-fi or something so it will self release when you haul (when you're soloing so you can body counterweight haul for instance) If that bag somehow gets flying prematurely, you'd be way more screwed if it's on a static line.
ALL ropes stretch somewhat and dynamic ropes are designed to stretch little at low loads and stretch a lot at higher loads (over 250 lbs) My old Eidelweiss stratos stretches very little under hauling situations. Hauling with a dynamic rope just ain't as bad as folks say.
Both systems works and have thier pros and cons.
PEace
Karl
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apollodorus
Oct 28, 2002, 3:15 AM
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Karl's right. In certain wall situations (e.g. one haul and one lead line), having a dynamic rope to haul with could be nice if the lead rope takes a flake and you need to lead on the haul line (so, don't use an old dynamic here, eh? Use a good one).
And the extra work hauling a dynamic rope is not that great. Except when your load catches under a roof, and you pull 15' before you find out. Even then, though, you can lower it back off and try again. If you're hauling a straight overhanging shot, there will be negligible extra effort with a dynamic rope because it's already stretched out (this assumes you don't excite some dynamic vibration/bouncing in the system as you vibrate/bounce up and down to get the pig up).
But you will have negligible ability to coax the load out from under a roof by yanking sagaciously on a dynamic line. A static line is better for hi-fidelity communication with the pig.
I guess the word of thumb is if you take only two ropes on a wall, both should be dynamic. If you take more than that, use a static to haul.
And jug. Anybody who's jugged free-hanging dynamic and a static lines will tell you the Grip Factor is worse with the dynamic.
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