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beerandblood
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May 6, 2002, 7:47 AM
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import_temporary
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rrrADAM
May 6, 2002, 10:46 AM
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Know what you mean Glenn... I've seen several lines "sprout" bolts overnight.
Seems like there are two reasons for this:
1. Someone had no balls to highball it, as the many boulderers before them.
2. A TR ascent doesn't count, even though it has been a TR for decades, so they bolt the line to get the lead ascent.
Both reasons are very selfcentered, and lead to bolting bans, as they prove that some bolters cannot regulate themselves and have to be regulated. We all suffer as a result of these "weenies".
Better than "chop chop", introduce them to "the ambasador of kick your ass-a-dor" !!!
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ratstar
May 6, 2002, 1:53 PM
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yeah we have a route in Tooele called "worthless bolts". Cause its 30 feet and its like a V0. We arent gonna chop em but we call people names that use them.
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spank_spank
May 6, 2002, 1:58 PM
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First question. Are there regulations for botling in J-Tree. I have never been there, so I don't know.
Second, Is this an established boulder problem or was it an FA on lead (when it was bolted)
I have seen some boulder that (to me) needed to be bolted. 40ft high boulders. I don't have the nutsack to boulder that high. Placing bolts in some cases is the safest way.
Would elaborate more, but I have conference call I am late for. I'll check back.
Peace out.
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edgelounger
Oct 28, 2002, 7:21 PM
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this has occurred at coopers rock, WV in recent times. a group of "local" climbers have been removing the mostly single bolt anchors.
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curt
Oct 28, 2002, 7:58 PM
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Glenn,
I think there is some sort of restriction on bolting in general at JT, isn't there? By the way, what boulder are you referring to?
Regards,
Curt
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sauron
Oct 28, 2002, 8:32 PM
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From what I read when I was last in J-Tree, there are regulations when it comes to bolting... You have to submit a document stating what line you want to bolt, what kind of bolts, etc - the committee reviews it, and says yay or nay.
- d.
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jmlangford
Oct 28, 2002, 9:04 PM
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The reason given above that a "Top-rope ascent doesn't count" is ridiculous! John Bachar said that top-roping is the purest form of roped climbing. While top-roped, you are free to concentrate on the pure climbing moves and you don't get into artificial positions while making clips.
I don't understand the problem people have with top-roping...I understand why they would not want to highball it.
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murf
Oct 28, 2002, 9:21 PM
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BandB - I'm all for choping for the right reason, but you're alittle sort on info.
- What boulder?
- Previously established route?
- How high?
- Did you climb it w/o the bolts?
If it's not an established boulder problem, and it's of reasonable length ( lets say 25 feet or so ), I don't think you can rationalize chopping. There are plenty of routes in the 25 feet range in JT. Maybe you would have put it up differently, but so be it.
Murf
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bouldersocal
Oct 30, 2002, 3:45 AM
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I agree with rrradam, just kick some asses bro!
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orangekyak
Oct 30, 2002, 4:41 AM
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jmlangford, i really like that opinion on TRing. I've been looking down my nose at TR lately but I will reevaluate it with your thoughts in mind.
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edgelounger
Oct 30, 2002, 5:04 PM
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the TR is honorable. however, IMO, bolt anchors should not be placed for boulders unless there is no alternative and the problem is highly likely to seriously hurt you if you fall...
i could easily see every highball getting a couple of bolts. before you know it, a whole new wave of bolterers
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tigerbythetail
Oct 30, 2002, 11:23 PM
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I'm with Murf - there's a little info lacking. Where are these bolted boulder problems in question? You talk of chopping them, yet you don't even do your homework to find out if they are routes in the guidebook or not. Like it or not there are some pretty silly routes with bolts, but that, as well as grainy, runout slabs and routes with descents that take longer than the climb and approach put together is Josh.
And all you others chiming in should chill and read Murf's post - did you climb it, solo it or even know where it is before jumping on the band-wagon? Now that bouldering and "highballing" is trendy, some of you seem to think only in terms of bouldering. Fine, but if it is a route respect the efforts of others. If this were five years ago I wonder how many of you would even be talking of "highballing" ???
Talk of closures etc.- a few bolts on some boulders is nothing compared to all the boulders caked with chalk, the vegetation flattened and the general arrogance and lack of respect towards others exhibited by some. Most of this can and does occur within sight of the road and non-climbing tourists- how's that for PR?
Lastly, about TR's - I myself am responsible for bolting some established
TR's at Josh (as are others). Despite what most of you want to believe, bolting a TR problem is acceptable...provided it meets certain criteria- it's high enough quality to warrant bolts, it's not crowding an exisiting line and lastly that it is high enough to make into a lead.
People don't spend their time,effort and money to bolt a shitpile. There's already enough of those out there. The reason many routes were originally TR'd at Josh, is because they were too steep and or problematic to bolt on the lead. Some of the better routes in Josh were former TR's that were made into leads - ever done Bebop Tango, Young Guns, Bikini Whale or The Chameleon? These were all former TR's - and there's more too. Some of these routes were bolted because they are fun, among the best of their grade and even atypical (steep) for Josh. They are bolted with the hope that people will climb them and enjoy them not criticize, critique and complain.
Let's see some info first and put some rational thought into this situation. One more thing - everyone is waaay too wound up.
[ This Message was edited by: tigerbythetail on 2002-10-30 15:47 ]
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