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freerangequark
Mar 27, 2008, 10:38 PM
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Last year I did some climbing with an AMGA guide who showed me a technique for use rapelling. In this case, we were using an ATC.
The technique involved using a spectra sling girth hitched to my belay loop with my locking pear biner and ATC at the other end of the sling. The basically moved the ATC away from my body and placed it comfortably out in front of me rather than close in to my body.
My question is, is this considered proper technique to have a single loop of spectra between my belay device and my harness?
Thanks!
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uni_jim
Mar 27, 2008, 10:59 PM
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I don't think that the extention has anything to do with redundancy. When I have seen this done, it was so that an autoblock/prussik/rope grab could be placed under the decender.
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hopperhopper
Mar 27, 2008, 11:10 PM
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i could be wrong, but i don't see anything wrong with this if that's really what you want to do. nothing in your belay system is redundant anyways...one rope, one belay device, one carabiner, one belay loop. if any of that breaks it all breaks anyways, so one more piece of non-redundant gear won't trash your setup.
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freerangequark
Mar 27, 2008, 11:10 PM
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uni_jim wrote: I don't think that the extention has anything to do with redundancy. When I have seen this done, it was so that an autoblock/prussik/rope grab could be placed under the decender.
I understand that the extension itself doesn't have anything to do with redundancy. My question was more along the lines of whether it was normal safe practice to have one's life dependant on this single loop of spectra. It it putting unnecessary reliance on a single piece of gear.
(This post was edited by freerangequark on Mar 27, 2008, 11:13 PM)
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uni_jim
Mar 27, 2008, 11:18 PM
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oh, well then, PETZL suggests doing it the way you said, but with the backup knot/device under it. It won't hurt you to rappel with the sling, if you like it, stick with it.
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ja1484
Mar 27, 2008, 11:31 PM
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freerangequark wrote: uni_jim wrote: I don't think that the extention has anything to do with redundancy. When I have seen this done, it was so that an autoblock/prussik/rope grab could be placed under the decender. I understand that the extension itself doesn't have anything to do with redundancy. My question was more along the lines of whether it was normal safe practice to have one's life dependant on this single loop of spectra. It it putting unnecessary reliance on a single piece of gear.
First of all, there are no safe practices in rock climbing, get that word out of your vocabulary. "Least risky" is the proper term
Second, do you climb on a single rope? Were you rappelling on a single carabiner with a single rappel device? Did you have a harness with two belay loops?
Redundancy is often overrated. In this case, you were using a sling I assume was in good condition, and it was going to be right in front of your face the whole time, correct? If so, I really don't have a problem with it. The single piece of equipment is well attended, in proper working form, and bearing loads so small compared to what it was rated for that it might as well not be bearing any load at all.
Rap already.
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Gmburns2000
Mar 27, 2008, 11:45 PM
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I've used this technique often, and think it is safe in comparison to going directly off your harness. I think it makes controlling the brake easier, as it puts the bend in the rope well in front of you instead of close to your body. For me, it just feel more natural to have it right in front of my eyes and my hands in a friendlier position.
Having said that, if you feel uncomfortable about using the one sling then throw another on. I've done that before, too, when my head has been queasy. If you don't have another sling and don't feel comfortable using just the one, then go off your harness the usual way.
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no_email_entered
Mar 27, 2008, 11:51 PM
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look at it numerickly----
belay loop strength = 22-26 kn
sling strength = 22-26 kn
are you gonna generate aprox. 5000 lbs of force on rap?
prolly not.
i usually fix a sling for a beginner on rap this way so the angle of control is better and feels better for them. its a non issue.
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mustclimb69
Mar 28, 2008, 12:06 AM
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use 2 slings clipped to one locker...
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shockabuku
Mar 28, 2008, 12:38 AM
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Yes, this is a normal technique. Many people also choose to back up their rappel with a friction knot from their harness to the brake side of the rope or use a Petzl Shunt. These systems are often handy on long or otherwise difficult rappels.
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majid_sabet
Mar 28, 2008, 12:42 AM
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This called extended belay and it is common among cavers to keep the rapping device above the belay loop.
GH spectra cord to belay loop = it demonstrates that the certified guide did not know jack.
Does it do the job = yes but it is Mickey Mouse work.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Mar 28, 2008, 12:44 AM)
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no_email_entered
Mar 28, 2008, 12:48 AM
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shockabuku wrote: ...or use a Petzl Shunt.
i'm curious--- have you ever seen anybody use one of these? i have yet to come across one in real life. seem like you could buy a lifetimes worth of cord for the cost---not to mention the added weight----
---not to be to much of a smartass but if i were REI i would package the shunt with the atc-sport----
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no_email_entered
Mar 28, 2008, 12:51 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: This called extended belay and it is common among cavers to keep the rapping device above the belay loop. GH spectra cord to belay loop = it demonstrates that the certified guide did not know jack. Does it do the job = yes but it is Mickey Mouse work.
hey buddy where you been today?
you should clarify that you would use a nylon sling tho----
your issue aint with the method, just the mode---
---can i be your translater?
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shockabuku
Mar 28, 2008, 2:36 AM
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no_email_entered wrote: shockabuku wrote: ...or use a Petzl Shunt. i'm curious--- have you ever seen anybody use one of these? i have yet to come across one in real life. seem like you could buy a lifetimes worth of cord for the cost---not to mention the added weight---- ---not to be to much of a smartass but if i were REI i would package the shunt with the atc-sport----
Yep. I bought one when I could get it cheap. It's a pretty decent piece of equipment but then it does cost a lot more than cord and is another special purpose device to lug around. I personally don't like the cord option so I use it when climbing by myself and for longer rappels. It's very easy to hook up and handles single and double ropes with equal ease. It also works as a TR solo device (not recommended) if you choose to use it that way.
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