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King-0f-Clever
Mar 16, 2008, 5:52 AM
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Sorry if this has been discussed here before im just looking for some input. Ive just been hired by the base outdoor rec center to teach manual belaying and climbing to new folks. Now im not an expert but me and friend got into it about what i want to teach. I when belaying and such how to use the GRIGRI, ATC, and the Fig 8. Is it wrong to show the fig 8 to people just starting or even people who have been climbing for awhile and dont know how to use one? this is kind of confusing i know but someone help please.
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pro_alien
Mar 16, 2008, 5:38 PM
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Would the gym owners want to see people using the figure 8 in their place ? Probably not.
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vegastradguy
Mar 16, 2008, 6:33 PM
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the Fig-8 is essentially a specialty piece these days- i don't know anyone who ever uses it for belaying and only a handful who use it for rappelling.
imho, the fig-8 has evolved into a specialty device for cavers and rescue personnel for the most part. rock climbers today only use tube devices and autolocking units like the gri-gri or cinch.
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lena_chita
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Mar 16, 2008, 7:05 PM
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I hope the place that hired you to teach has a good insurance policy.
If you are teaching a person who has never belayed before, pick one device and stick with it! Why would you want to confuse the heck out of people?
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antiqued
Mar 16, 2008, 10:14 PM
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I think most people learning something new do better if they learn one thing at a time, and do not try to master changes until the first procedure is down into the brainstem, and no longer on the conscious surface.
I'm guessing this shouldn't be a survey course. No one expects you to do anthropological research after Anthro 101, but I guess someone expects these people to belay someone when you are through with them.
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kletter1mann
Mar 17, 2008, 1:36 AM
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King-0f-Clever wrote: >>>snip<<< Now im not an expert >>>snip<<< this is kind of confusing i know but someone help please.
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King-0f-Clever
Mar 17, 2008, 2:32 AM
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kletter1mann wrote: King-0f-Clever wrote: >>>snip<<< Now im not an expert >>>snip<<< this is kind of confusing i know but someone help please. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but given your post are you sure you're qualified to be teaching?
Well im going through AMGA course next month. Im grateful for the heads up on this.
I was thinkin along more of the informative side of things i guess.
The main reason im asking and everyone here could def throw in some pointers. what would you stress for a belaying class. i know communication and attention to your partner, as well as dont let go of the rope are all huge. I know more can be done but what are some key points to stress?
for instance When i started out all the dude at the gym did was show me how to tie a Fig-8 knot and how to use an ATC. Then he let my partner go up and watched as i caught him. Then he signed off on my belay cert and called it a day. I just want people to feel like they walked away with a bit more knowledge than that.
(This post was edited by King-0f-Clever on Mar 17, 2008, 6:26 AM)
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hopperhopper
Mar 19, 2008, 8:46 PM
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you're blending two different objectives. you either need to A) equip someone to belay safely and catch falls or B) inform people about various belay and climbing techniques. the former gives bare bones to keep information limited and focus on a few key points, and makes sure those points are fully understood. the latter expands on the basics and keeps things interesting, broadening the knowledge of those taking the class, offering up a lot of information.
decide which one you're doing and act accordingly. if all you are doing is teaching someone to belay, don't go information overload. keep confusion to a minimum.
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majid_sabet
Mar 19, 2008, 9:28 PM
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8 may not be so common among the North American climbing community but a lot of foreign climbers are still using 8 to belay or to rap. As an instructor, you should teach your student how to use 8 no matter what.
Also the small hole in the 8 can be used just like an ATC to belay and I bet 95% of the American climbers do not know that.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Mar 19, 2008, 9:29 PM)
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shockabuku
Mar 19, 2008, 9:48 PM
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King-0f-Clever wrote: Sorry if this has been discussed here before im just looking for some input. Ive just been hired by the base outdoor rec center to teach manual belaying and climbing to new folks. Now im not an expert but me and friend got into it about what i want to teach. I when belaying and such how to use the GRIGRI, ATC, and the Fig 8. Is it wrong to show the fig 8 to people just starting or even people who have been climbing for awhile and dont know how to use one? this is kind of confusing i know but someone help please.
The KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) principle suggests that multiple devices might not be a good idea, especially for beginners. Since tube style belay devices are highly effective as well as very prevalent in the US (I'm assuming you're teaching for a US service) you probably should start there. As your students move beyond what you've taught them they'll let you know if they need help on other devices or figure it out for themselves. If you're being hired to teach them principally how to climb, and to belay as a climbing activity, it should be reasonably clear to see what range of topics you should be going into in order to accomplish getting people climbing. People who go to a climbing class want to learn how to climb, not a bunch of excess stuff about other belay devices, techniques, etc. Get them climbing first, in a safe, expedient manner, so that they enjoy themselves.
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acorneau
Mar 20, 2008, 2:38 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Also the small hole in the 8 can be used just like an ATC to belay and I bet 95% of the American climbers do not know that.
Actually, some manufacturers build and test their 8's for belaying through the small hole, but some do not and specifically state that they are not designed or rated for that purpose.
Check with your manufacturer for details.
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8flood8
Mar 20, 2008, 2:46 PM
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teach them on the grigri.
after a day or two belaying with that you can show them another device.
AS LONG AS you are able to explain the difference in the two devices and why one is autolocking and the other not.
Belaying isn't hard to teach, just make sure you back people up on the brake until you can assess their skill level with a belay device.
What should you emphasize?
NEVER NEVER NEVER take your hand off the brake.
and don't worry about lead belaying in the first clinic. Lead belay will be a different clinic.
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jmvc
Mar 31, 2008, 9:49 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: the Fig-8 is essentially a specialty piece these days- i don't know anyone who ever uses it for belaying and only a handful who use it for rappelling. imho, the fig-8 has evolved into a specialty device for cavers and rescue personnel for the most part. rock climbers today only use tube devices and autolocking units like the gri-gri or cinch.
I see gri gris, fig 8, and tube devices in that order of frequency among the people I climb with in Spain.. I find there is something quite nice about the simplicity of a fig 8...
However from what I read on this forum, i can see they have gone out of fashion in the US..
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CaptainPolution
Mar 31, 2008, 11:55 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: 8 may not be so common among the North American climbing community but a lot of foreign climbers are still using 8 to belay or to rap. As an instructor, you should teach your student how to use 8 no matter what. Also the small hole in the 8 can be used just like an ATC to belay and I bet 95% of the American climbers do not know that.
LOLOLOL
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irregularpanda
Mar 31, 2008, 11:59 PM
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King-0f-Clever wrote: for instance When i started out all the dude at the gym did was show me how to tie a Fig-8 knot and how to use an ATC. Then he let my partner go up and watched as i caught him. Then he signed off on my belay cert and called it a day. I just want people to feel like they walked away with a bit more knowledge than that.
One way to start a course is to ask all of your students what their goals are. Then you can tailor the course to their specific needs.
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