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Starting the right way
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Maxx640


Mar 31, 2008, 5:02 AM
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Starting the right way
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Hello,
I have just found two aid-climbing routes down the road and am really interested in trying them out. The problem is that I have never aid-climbed before and have not found any school near me. So I figured out I could try by finding information on the web.

The first route is a single pitch of A1, and the second has 3 pitches: A1, A2, A3. The good news with the first one is that I can go round to the top of the face and top-rope it. That means I can go wrong and still be safe. Hurray!


This is how I'm going to proceed (what I understood from looking on internet and on the forum, I need confirmation please), tell me if I go wrong anywhere please:

I put in a first point, clip in an aider (ladder) and aggressively test the point. Then I clip my daisy-chain and get on the steps.
I place a second point, clip an other aider to it, test it, get on it and clip my daisy-chain into it.
Take the lower aider off and place it on the point that I put in above, and so on. Then yell at my partner because he's falling asleep with boredom!

Am I doing that right? When you lead (don't worry just a question, I like life too much to go and lead before a long time) do you do the same but add quick-draws to the points and put the rope through like in trad?

I hope you can guide me a little here. Oh, and I only have one aider that was given to me, so I'll use slings instead, it's just to try and see if I like it first. But it sounds fun to me.

Max


Edit: spelling


(This post was edited by Maxx640 on Mar 31, 2008, 5:08 AM)


colatownkid


Mar 31, 2008, 5:51 AM
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yep, that's pretty much it. if you decide you like it though, a second aider will become very useful very quickly.


altelis


Mar 31, 2008, 7:02 AM
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pretty much right. just a few caveats:

1) if you can go around and top rope i would just use a gri-gri or an ascender and bypass a belayer and top-rope solo. no need to make someone watch you for that long. if my and a bunch of friend's experience is a guide, a TON of people start out aiding by soloing (whether on lead or top-rope solo)

2)check out the climbing website, they have a pretty good tutorial on tying your own aiders out of a long piece of webbing. if you make your own with slings they can be really hard to undo, so its probably cheaper just to buy a long piece of webbing and tie your own aider. its not great, but it did get me up some of my first A2 solo plenty well.

cause i'm such a nice guy, here's the link: http://www.climbing.com/...t/techtips/ttaid216/

3) if you are already familiar with trad climbing, and ESPECIALLY if you are top-roping (solo or otherwise) i would say don't worry too much about bouncing the crap out of placements you would whip on while trad climbing. you should be able to spot bomber placements. just clip those and go. especially with nuts and hexes, these can be a PITA to clean after a thorough bounce test. when you start putting in more marginal pieces go ahead and bounce test them

4) on that same vein, if you are top-roping use that as a great consequence free time to get on some real crap placements. you can't really give these a real big bounce, cause, well, you already know that can't take that. but give em small bounces and then get on. some will pop but others won't and it is a great way to really learn the boundaries of gear. you'll be surprised what you can get away with!


moose_droppings


Mar 31, 2008, 7:46 AM
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Also, wear a helmet and don't look at your piece while you test it. They make a pretty good guided missle when they pop.


coastal_climber


Apr 1, 2008, 12:44 PM
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moose_droppings wrote:
Also, wear a helmet and don't look at your piece while you test it. They make a pretty good guided missle when they pop.

Especially with pins, don't look!

>Cam


Partner pbcowboy77


Apr 1, 2008, 4:01 PM
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Re: [Maxx640] Starting the right way [In reply to]
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Well that's the basics, but there is one thing...

If your daisy is not clipped into your aiders and your piece blows while testing it your gonna loose that piece and your aider. Your aider and daisy should be in the same crab.

To find some god info search Dr. Piton on this site or check out,

http://www.mountainproject.com

it's got a some great info there and there and everyone is willing to share.


Good Luck

Zac


Tree_wrangler


Apr 1, 2008, 5:32 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Starting the right way [In reply to]
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In reply to:
don't look at your piece while you test it. They make a pretty good guided missle when they pop.

He's not joking. It's not just the piece itself, either. Twice, while pulling on the webbing grab-loop to step up, I've had a piece pop and, instead of the piece itself nailing me, it caused me to punch myself in the mouth. Hard.


Maxx640


Apr 2, 2008, 6:40 AM
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Hello,
First of all I would like to thank you all for the advice given, it is very helpful.

I have come back from a day crawling up a pitch of A1 and have a few comments to make.

I am so glad you told me to take a helmet and look away! Twice a piton shot out and it was definitely trying to have a go at my head. The second time I would have gone flying if it wasn't for my Daisy-chain. I had attached the aiders to it, without knowing it was the thing to do, just seemed common sense.

I was self belaying myself (top-rope) with a jumar handle and a prussik above it for back-up. I hope it is the right way!

As for the Daisy-chain, there is something I don't understand, when attached to my point and going to my next one, there is a moment I have to change point attached to, at that moment if you fall, you come off. Do you have 2 Daisy-chains to be always on a point? I mean it doesn't matter if you're top-roping but I wouldn't like that while leading!

I have also questions for lead climbing, I would like to try that out next, but on a abandoned 5.6 route I know, to be safe (this time with a belayer) :

1. Do you use Quickdraws for the rope like trad climbing?
2. I suppose you don't put you rope on every single point, or that would be a lot of QDs or whatever you use... do you?
3. The cleaner comes up on the same rope that you use for pro? I have an 8.6mm double rope. Or is that dangerous and stupid?


At last: you could have warned me that aid-climbing was a drug! Now I'm addicted and want to climb everything aiding! I just love it, it's fun! I did that A1 pitch 3 times (it's short) that day and wasn't bored!


moose_droppings


Apr 2, 2008, 8:14 AM
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Yes, you need a daisy on each aider. I girth hitch each to my tie in points on my harness, then you'll be attached when switching to your next piece.

Self belaying with a toothed ascender can shread your rope if everything isn't just right. I'd suggest you get a rescuecender and tie backup knots along the way. Some others will have different suggestions for devices. Do a search on self belay and read, theres a lot of threads out there just on this subject.

For the most part, yes you put a draw on every piece you get into the wall. Aiding eats up biners and draws.

Get yourself a beefier rope for aiding, something around 10.5mm to 11mm.


shimanilami


Apr 2, 2008, 8:47 AM
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I personally feel that the first step in "starting the right way" on an aid climb is to roll a fat doobie and smoke it down.


joeforte


Apr 2, 2008, 8:48 AM
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Maybe someone else can chime in, but I don't think it's necessary to be using pitons while toproping A1 these days. Clean aid is the way to go.


Maxx640


Apr 2, 2008, 3:33 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Starting the right way [In reply to]
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Actually I only have two Pitons in all and for all, but I just wanted to try it out (never take them on trad routes). I've read it ain't good for the old rock.

I have one last question before I stop bothering you: why do you need so many biners and what do you use them for? As you use quickdraws on the gear(moose-droppings said), where do the biners come in use (especially 60 of them!)? Or is biners synonym of QDs, in my dictionary it says biner=karabinier (sorry I am still learning Shakespire's language and don't know all the English terms in climbing!). Unless you place the rope through a Karabiner, but that seems dangerous to me if you fall!

Maxim,


hafilax


Apr 2, 2008, 4:34 PM
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When leading long aid pitches you put in a lot of gear. Leaving a quickdraw at each piece requires 2X as many biners as leaving one. Sometimes you need to extend, sometimes a single biner will do.


8flood8


Apr 2, 2008, 4:36 PM
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i didn't think so at first, but now i'm gonna have to say troll.


dingus


Apr 2, 2008, 5:27 PM
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Tree_wrangler wrote:
it caused me to punch myself in the mouth. Hard.

That's aid climbing! You muse be doing something right. Next step is to just start beating your head into the wall, more efficient.

Cheers
DMT


tolman_paul


Apr 2, 2008, 6:36 PM
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Check this out, it should answer alot of your questions.

http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/BigWallTechManual.htm


Maxx640


Apr 3, 2008, 9:25 AM
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8flood8 wrote:
i didn't think so at first, but now i'm gonna have to say troll.

I don't see what asking some questions in order to begin aiding without putting myself in danger has to do with trolling! If you are referring to the question about the biners, I was always taught in trad climbing never to put just a biner on a piece of pro. That's what made me ask.


Dr. Piton has good information in his posts, that helped quite a lot. But http://www.bigwalls.net/ doesn't work.
I have found a few more routes in my region, in A1 and A2 (it actually goes to A4, but I can forget that!).
I'm impatient to see how my first lead goes, but I'll still be top-roping a while until I am more confident and have more gear.

Thank you all for the useful answers and links!


dingus


Apr 3, 2008, 10:57 AM
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You'll do what you want of course, but what exactly is the point of top roping easy aid? I'm not sure I get that. Why not just into the business?

DMT


pmyche


Apr 3, 2008, 1:16 PM
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lambone


Apr 5, 2008, 8:24 PM
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just solo El Cap


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