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richardvg03
Apr 15, 2008, 4:24 AM
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I'm investing in my rack and I was wondering what gear I need for Jtree... What cams do I need doubles of??? and so on?
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le_bruce
Apr 15, 2008, 6:19 AM
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Hey Richard, of course it'll depend on what you want to climb. But what's worked for me is a set or so of nuts, including micros, and cams:
BD, doubles .4-3
BD single 4,5
Set of Metolius TCUs
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richardvg03
Apr 15, 2008, 2:02 PM
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damn! Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying
1 set of nuts
2 sets of BD cams except for number 4 and 5
1 set of metolius cams...?
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Reaganchung
Apr 15, 2008, 2:23 PM
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thats a little overkill. skip the micro nuts. skip the 4 and 5 and get a single 3.
doubles in .75 , 1, 2 and .5 if you have money
skip the smallest tcu sizes.
even with whats left is a lot of gear for short jtree climbs
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irregularpanda
Apr 15, 2008, 3:25 PM
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Reaganchung wrote: even with whats left is a lot of gear for short jtree climbs
True. Lots of nuts, thats my 0.02.
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trenchdigger
Apr 15, 2008, 3:59 PM
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I'd agree that it depends a lot on what you want to climb. I did a route last weekend that took three #3s and a #4. I could have gotten by with two #3s and two #4s, but it wouldn't have protected with anything smaller.
Your rack should include at least one set of nuts. I usually carry about 1.5 sets with an emphasis on small to medium nuts. I've encountered a number of JTree routes whose cruxes only protect with small nuts.
As far as cams go, I usually bring a double set to #3 with me and rack accordingly for the route. In general, a single set to #3 will get you up a lot of stuff. Doubles in the .5 to #2 range get used the most on my rack, and I'll carry doubles of small cams if I'm in the mood for thin cracks. A #4 camalot will get a lot of use too, but larger #5 and #6 will generally only get use when you seek out the wide.
For small cams, I prefer aliens in JTree rock. Others have differing opinions.
Due to the flaring nature of the cracks in JTree, offset nuts and cams are very useful. The HB offset nuts are no longer produced, but DMM is supposedly going to release their version of them some time very soon. I know I'll be buying a set. CCH and Metolius both produce offset cams.
Hope that helps...
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le_bruce
Apr 15, 2008, 5:39 PM
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Brother, if you really get into the trad game you're going to end up with everything I listed and then some. Why not get it now? Could be smart to go slow and make sure you like it, but if you're sure, no time like the present.
Without micronuts you'll be kept away from some of the JTree classics (Poodles are People Too, Coarse and Buggy, etc). A BD #4 is not a wide cam - it's protects a fist crack. To lead Fisticuffs alone you'll probably want two of them (this is where your partner's rack comes in).
Not even touching the other obvious CA venues like Yosemite, Needles. The rack I listed above is not overkill. Scratch the TCUs for now but you'll want them or something similar before long if you stay in it.
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blazesod
Apr 15, 2008, 5:59 PM
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Richard,
If you are buying a rack so you can start leading in J-tree, let me suggest something else.
1) Find someone who lives there
2) Make friends with them = beer + cookies
3) Let them lead, and use their gear.
Cheers,
-Dave
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jt512
Apr 15, 2008, 6:07 PM
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Trenchdigger's rack sounds like mine. One black Alien, then doubles through #3 Camalot, and one #4. Occasionally, you need triples or a second #4, but that's why you have a partner. I avoid routes that would require a #5. Offset cams (if you can find any whose heads don't pop off under body weight) are better than symmetric ones. I used to carry 2 sets of nuts, but pared it down to one set of offsets, minus the two smallest, which, unless you can equalize them, are just placebo pro.
Jay
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richardvg03
Apr 15, 2008, 6:52 PM
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blazesod wrote: Richard, If you are buying a rack so you can start leading in J-tree, let me suggest something else. 1) Find someone who lives there 2) Make friends with them = beer + cookies 3) Let them lead, and use their gear. Cheers, -Dave
Well dave... How are you doing? LOL!! I notice you live in Jtree... i hear it's a nice place... I see you're also a Marine... Semper Fi big guy ;) HAHA
The problem with my rack is that my partner does not have a rack. I buy the gear... he buys the gas and provides the transpo...
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Reaganchung
Apr 15, 2008, 8:06 PM
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i doubt that someone will lead those climbs as a beginner. Ive led poodles are people too and my smallest nut i placed was a #5 bd. If you don't have any other sources of borrowing gear then yes, get a #4 cam. Unless you are getting a deal right now then you can always wait until there is a sale to get specialty gear.
There is nothing wrong with the rack you listed bruce, in fact, i have pretty much have what you listed except i have 1.5 set of nuts and i dont have a #5 and a #6. But the OP asked about a j-tree rack...
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jt512
Apr 15, 2008, 8:37 PM
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trenchdigger wrote: jt512 wrote: Trenchdigger's rack sounds like mine. ... You have a rack? What for??? 
It's for historical purposes only.
Jay
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trenchdigger
Apr 15, 2008, 9:16 PM
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jt512 wrote: trenchdigger wrote: jt512 wrote: Trenchdigger's rack sounds like mine. ... You have a rack? What for??? It's for historical purposes only. Jay
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krusher4
Apr 15, 2008, 9:50 PM
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i've found one set of nuts and double on cams from micros to 4, to be perfect everyones diff though.
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chanceboarder
Apr 15, 2008, 10:21 PM
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1 #4, doubles of #5 and #6, a set of Big Bros from #2 to #5, and one set of micro wires.
Anything else is overkill! 
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donald949
Apr 15, 2008, 10:51 PM
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Everyone keeps mentioning Cams and not hexes. As I recall, due to the nature of the flaring cracks, Hexes were hard to set there. So no help for your $$ there. On the other hand, there were areas were large loops of webbing were usefull for setting TR's.
Don
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reno
Apr 16, 2008, 12:26 AM
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jt512 wrote: trenchdigger wrote: jt512 wrote: Trenchdigger's rack sounds like mine. ... You have a rack? What for??? It's for historical purposes only.
First generation camalots with U-stems and floating trigger bars?
I've had plenty of good times climbing routes 5.7-5.10 on the following rack:
One standard set BD stoppers.
Metolius TCUs, 1-4
Double C4s, from 0.5-2.0
A single #3 Camalot.
Like JT512, if it needs a #5, I ain't getting on it. Off-width is not my forte (though, admittedly, at times perfect hands isn't my forte either. Or fists. Or fingers. Or much of anything.)
I've never needed a #4 either, but I've only done perhaps three dozen routes there. Those with more experience will probably disagree.
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jt512
Apr 16, 2008, 5:33 AM
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reno wrote: jt512 wrote: trenchdigger wrote: jt512 wrote: Trenchdigger's rack sounds like mine. ... You have a rack? What for??? It's for historical purposes only. First generation camalots with U-stems and floating trigger bars?
I have one of those. I used to have a full set, but I sold them.
Jay
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richardvg03
Apr 16, 2008, 5:48 AM
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reno wrote: One standard set BD stoppers. Metolius TCUs, 1-4 Double C4s, from 0.5-2.0 A single #3 Camalot.
Ive noticed a lot of people say "metolius TCU's" and then say BD C4's... what not just a bunch of black diamond C4's?? Do the Metolius do something the C4's dont??
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jt512
Apr 16, 2008, 5:55 AM
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richardvg03 wrote: reno wrote: One standard set BD stoppers. Metolius TCUs, 1-4 Double C4s, from 0.5-2.0 A single #3 Camalot. Ive noticed a lot of people say "metolius TCU's" and then say BD C4's... what not just a bunch of black diamond C4's?? Do the Metolius do something the C4's dont??
Yes. A Three Cam Unit will generally be narrower than a 4 Cam Unit, and hence will fit in a shallower placement. The exception for 4 cam units is the Alien; unfortunately, for the last few years, CCH seems incapable of reliably producing Aliens that don't fall apart under body weight. Metolius will shortly be coming out with a line of 4 cam units with a narrow profile like the Aliens.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 16, 2008, 6:00 AM)
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reno
Apr 16, 2008, 5:57 AM
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richardvg03 wrote: Ive noticed a lot of people say "metolius TCU's" and then say BD C4's... what not just a bunch of black diamond C4's?? Do the Metolius do something the C4's dont??
My personal opinion only:
Camalots are fine cams, up to (well, DOWN to) a certain point. For me, that point is about the .4 Camalot. Smaller than that, I like the narrower profile of the Metolius TCU. Seems to fit into small pockets and pin scars and shallow cracks better.
This is anecdotal evidence, of course. Observational data. Nothing more. For all I know, a Camalot of .3 and a Metolius TCU the same size will hold equally in the same placement. Hell, the Camalot might hold better. I don't know.
What I do know is that psychologically, the TCUs make my inner mojo happy in certain placements when Camalots don't.
And there's something to be said for psychological pro, ya dig?
Edit: Should have been Camalot .3, not Camalot .03. Ooops.
(This post was edited by reno on Apr 16, 2008, 5:59 AM)
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EvilMonkey
Apr 26, 2008, 9:30 AM
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i was just wondering why everybody uses camalots for the bigger sizes over metolius power cams and fat cams. i've got a set of tcu's, power, and fat cams from #1 to 9 with double #3's. they were part of a package deal a while back. my partner has camalots so i use both regularly, but i don't really have any problm w/ either one, and prefer the way the metolius cams rack. is it the dual axle design of the camalot that makes it a favorite, or is there some other reason(s). anyway, i was just wondering if somebody could fill me in, since the same question was brought up earlier in the thread about the smaller sizes. thanks.
(This post was edited by EvilMonkey on Apr 26, 2008, 8:36 PM)
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rockvaulter
Apr 26, 2008, 2:41 PM
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EvilMonkey wrote: i was just wondering why everybody uses camalots for the bigger sizes over metolius fat cams. i've got a set of tcu's, power, and fat cams from #1 to 9 with double #3's. my partner has camalots so i use both regularly, but i don't really have any problm w/ either one, and prefer the way the metolius cams rack. is it the dual axle design of the camalot that makes it a favorite, or is there some other reason(s). anyway, i was just wondering if somebody could fill me in, since the same question was brought up earlier in the thread about the smaller sizes. thanks.
I think, from the places I have bought climbing gear, that Black Diamond is what most "climbing shops" carry. My EMS carries only BD pro and a size run of .5 to 4 CAMP Tricams (which noone buys except me), where the one in Concord NH has Camalots, Links, Friends, and even a couple Aliens  . But in general, I think most people have Black Diamonds because its the easiest things to come by. My $.02, thought i could be totally wrong.
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quiteatingmysteak
Apr 26, 2008, 9:35 PM
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My rack is pretty much the same as Jays. The smallest cam I carry out there usually ends up being .4 C4. Just too grainy to bother with the tiny shit.
I now carry blue/green green/yellow yellow/grey hybrid aliens. Almost exclusively place these over their wider head, non offset counterparts.
I would really recommend 2 sets of nuts. Put a multi-directional first peice and nut away. Most of the classics you will want to jump on your first few times are nut eaters - Thin Wall, Dairy Queen, Hemingway... its kind of like Tuolumne sometimes in that the huge crystals and knobs create placements that are too narrow for cams and make BOMBER nut stops.
oh and dont forget to carry that rack on sport routes, for fun.
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