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Sin
May 5, 2008, 10:13 PM
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Does anyone have these on their rack? Just bought them for a trip to J-tree, and boy wasI impressed. There were several spots where bd nuts didn't seem to wanna work, and these babies fit in jus like a glove. Comments on my nuts?
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maldaly
May 5, 2008, 10:17 PM
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Love your nuts, Sin. I've been using them for 12 years or whenever Hugh invented them He gave me his after I dropped my whole rack in the North Irish Sea while traversing into Gogarth.
Don't know why anyone wastes time and money to color-code nuts so I'm sorry to see that DMM caved in to the marketers ans graphic artists.
Mal
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stymingersfink
May 5, 2008, 10:27 PM
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The real question is:
When will the bronze offsets become available once again?!
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vegastradguy
May 5, 2008, 10:49 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: The real question is: When will the bronze offsets become available once again?!
they've never not been available.
of course, the only place you can get them is the Yosemite Mountain Shop- the lady who owns the rights signed an exclusivity deal with the YMS to distribute them.
personally, i think that kind of sucks, but hey, it was her call.
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stymingersfink
May 5, 2008, 11:07 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: stymingersfink wrote: The real question is: When will the bronze offsets become available once again?! they've never not been available. of course, the only place you can get them is the Yosemite Mountain Shop- the lady who owns the rights signed an exclusivity deal with the YMS to distribute them. personally, i think that kind of sucks, but hey, it was her call.
thanks for the link too, shocka 
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granite_grrl
May 6, 2008, 1:51 PM
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Well, there's a reason why everyone is so excited that they've finally become avalible again.
I've got to get to a good gear shop in the states and pick up a set of my own soon (so I no longer fear fixing one of the hubby's). Mal - agreed that the colour coding on them sucks, but what can you do?
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shoo
May 6, 2008, 2:19 PM
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maldaly wrote: Don't know why anyone wastes time and money to color-code nuts so I'm sorry to see that DMM caved in to the marketers ans graphic artists. Mal
[Thread drift]
I actually find color coding very useful. When I get attuned to my rack, I am able to look at the feature on the rock and recognize which nut I'll be using. When I look down to grab the nut, I can easily see where it is. Given, I could probably do this almost as easily by looking at size, but it's a comfort I enjoy.
I also find the color coding useful when teaching new leaders. I can give suggestions for placements by color more easily than I can with numbers or relative sizes. The color helps with communications later on as well, because it's easier to remember what color the nut you placed was than the number. I can second and say "remember that big green nut you placed? It sucked," when I get to the top and have my partner actually remember it.
How much extra does it cost to anodize anyway? If it's doesn't cost much, is there any harm?
[/Thread drift]
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fenderfour
May 6, 2008, 2:44 PM
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shoo wrote: maldaly wrote: Don't know why anyone wastes time and money to color-code nuts so I'm sorry to see that DMM caved in to the marketers ans graphic artists. Mal [Thread drift] I actually find color coding very useful. When I get attuned to my rack, I am able to look at the feature on the rock and recognize which nut I'll be using. When I look down to grab the nut, I can easily see where it is. Given, I could probably do this almost as easily by looking at size, but it's a comfort I enjoy. I also find the color coding useful when teaching new leaders. I can give suggestions for placements by color more easily than I can with numbers or relative sizes. The color helps with communications later on as well, because it's easier to remember what color the nut you placed was than the number. I can second and say "remember that big green nut you placed? It sucked," when I get to the top and have my partner actually remember it. How much extra does it cost to anodize anyway? If it's doesn't cost much, is there any harm? [/Thread drift]
I don't think it does any harm. It only helps for the year or two that the finish stays on the nuts. I've got a set of smileys that started out anodized, now they are almost all silver.
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maldaly
May 6, 2008, 2:54 PM
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Good points Shoo. I think that color coding is personal preference. Problem with nuts is that there is no color coordination at all between brands. I rack by size not brand and I carry at least 4 different brands (WC Rocks and Superlight Rocks, HB Offsets, FROST Sentinel and Metolius.). And those are just the larger sizes. I also carry HB Brass Offsets, Metolius Astro Nuts and RPs. None of the smaller ones are color coded.
Anodizing produces some pretty toxic waste products. It's pretty well regulated in Europe and the US but not so much in Asia and Eastern Europe. We're taking a a hard look at discontinuing anodizing altogether.
Mal
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 3:11 PM
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maldaly wrote: We're taking a a hard look at discontinuing anodizing altogether. Mal
Sack up and DO IT, mal. On the environmental issues alone it's a good practice to leave behind.
Lead the industry back to places it never should have left.
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fenderfour
May 7, 2008, 6:18 PM
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The old HB's had colored tubing over the clip in loop that worked great.
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quiteatingmysteak
May 7, 2008, 6:59 PM
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fenderfour wrote: The old HB's had colored tubing over the clip in loop that worked great.
I prefer the wires for aid because its a little easier to thread nuts through eachother for those extra 8" reaches, and lets face it, some of us are hobbits :(
Offsets are as mandatory in a clean rack as cam hooks and hybrids, which should also be as mandatory as a rope and carabiners, hehe.
I don't mind the colorization, kinda makes it easy. My other 2 sets of nuts aren't colored in any way, shape or form, and I'm constantly trying to gauge looking down which is the next size up from the one I have which is too small... is it the aluminum colored one? Or the other aluminum one? With the DMM offsets I know "Hey, red is too big, i think dark blue is smaller..." instead of having to hold them up to eachother.
Imma geek
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healyje
May 7, 2008, 7:17 PM
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Got a set at Neptune's two weeks ago and have to join the chorus on not caring for the anodizing. The only way that will ever make sense is if all the manufacturers standardize colors
The other issues I have with them are the actual nuts on the wire are very slick sliding causing them to slide all over the wire, mostly when I don't want them to like on my rack and when cleaning. While in Eldo I put a bit of sport tape on the wire below the nut to keep them in place - but I'm heading down to the hardware store in a bit to get some epoxy to lock those suckers in place. And yes, I do care a couple of small non-epoxied nuts to use on studs, but these babies need to be epoxied like the original HB versions.
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taydude
May 7, 2008, 7:32 PM
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this may be a lil off topic but do you think that the dmm offsets would be a good set to grab for a beginning trad rack? I'd probably grab a set of regular nuts as well to have doubles.
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summerprophet
May 7, 2008, 7:41 PM
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Stick to standard nuts for your beginning rack unless you happen to frequent an area with pin scars.
Offsets nuts while not as much of a specialty piece as offset cams, still has quite a specific purpose that may or may not be completely useless to your home crag.
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healyje
Sep 11, 2008, 5:56 AM
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The other day I arrived at an HB #9 keyhole placement on a route I do fairly often. On slotting in one of the DMM #9's it simply wouldn't go - it was too large and I was incredibly dismayed to discover DMM changed the geometry of the DMM version from the HB Alloy design. I haven't checked all five sizes, but at least the #9 is considerable 'thicker' side to side (perpendicualar to an axis through the centers of the two drilled wire holes).
From my perspective, this is an unbelievably unfortunate decision on their part. And it's hard to imagine it wasn't deliberate decision as well, as taking a micrometer to one of the HB's would have told them everything they needed to know to recreate the original HB geometry for new molds.
Bottomline? DMM bought the rights ,so it's their call, but this design needed no "improvements" of any kind. I'd say if DMM believes they have somehow 'added value' to the basic proposition the HB's offered then I think they are sadly deluding themselves.
Now the new molds have been cut, so it's unlikely a second set will be made to correct the problem which is, again, incredibly unfortunate. I will now be selling the DMMs and keeping an eye on ebay for a couple of sets of the old ones regardless of how long it takes.
An 'A' for intent and effort - a 'D-' for execution. In general, I'm not sure which is more painful to see - someone not recognizing perfection, or thinking they can somehow improve upon it.
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basilisk
Sep 11, 2008, 7:11 AM
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....so did you slot a number 8 and climb on?
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healyje
Sep 11, 2008, 7:37 AM
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basilisk wrote: ....so did you slot a number 8 and climb on?
No, I had both an HB and DMM #9...
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esoteric1
Sep 11, 2008, 8:35 AM
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take a file to it...
and anyone else notice that the # 7 gets used much more often?
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healyje
Sep 11, 2008, 9:23 AM
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esoteric1 wrote: take a file to it... and anyone else notice that the # 7 gets used much more often?
Too much has to come off. Dumping them as soon as I score some of the HB's.
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sungam
Sep 11, 2008, 10:45 AM
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healyje wrote: esoteric1 wrote: take a file to it... and anyone else notice that the # 7 gets used much more often? Too much has to come off. Dumping them as soon as I score some of the HB's.
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stymingersfink
Sep 11, 2008, 3:53 PM
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sungam wrote: healyje wrote: esoteric1 wrote: take a file to it... and anyone else notice that the # 7 gets used much more often? Too much has to come off. Dumping them as soon as I score some of the HB's. I'll take 'em. 
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basilisk
Sep 11, 2008, 4:04 PM
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healyje wrote: basilisk wrote: ....so did you slot a number 8 and climb on? No, I had both an HB and DMM #9...
I guess I was really asking is what difference does it make? DMM changed either the physical size, or changed the numbering system. Either way it's the same geometry (so they claim at least). So instead of getting upset you could have just placed a numerically lower nut.
soooo what's the problem?
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healyje
Sep 11, 2008, 4:19 PM
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basilisk wrote: I guess I was really asking is what difference does it make? DMM changed either the physical size, or changed the numbering system. Either way it's the same geometry (so they claim at least). So instead of getting upset you could have just placed a numerically lower nut. soooo what's the problem?
They did not change the numbering, it's still #7-11 for the Alloys. The problem is that they did change the size in one dimension and, hence, the geometry. That in turn has changed how they place and the 'problem' is it did not improve them, rather it degraded them.
It certainly isn't about a case of being able to 'just place a numerically lower nut - it's about unnecessarily tampering with something folks have long been used to, changing expectations around what pulling one off your rack means (what '#9' means), and in general, just not screwing up a perfectly good thing.
And don't even get me started on having had to epoxy the wire onto the nuts in order to make them functional (cleanable) at all...
(This post was edited by healyje on Sep 11, 2008, 4:21 PM)
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AlexCV
Sep 11, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Least you can do is send them an email about it. You're not the first one to complain about the cable not staying put and DMM did make an alteration to their drilling to make the fit tighter but I don't know if that was done pre-production or mid-production.
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