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healyje
May 5, 2008, 6:11 PM
Post #26 of 39
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So I gather you're aid climbing versus free climbing. Most folks engaging in high-level aid soloing these days just use a grigri. Whatever device you choose is up to you - but cost and easy availability are lousy criteria when it comes to deciding.
And Angry - dude, wtf is with with the screamer stack? You're normally a pretty down to earth type so that's pretty out there. As someone who does 50% of their climbing roped solo and who has taken dozens of screamered falls I can assure you a single regular (non-aid) screamer is more than up to the task of stopping a fall safely - any fall.
Austin - that's a lot of piss and vinegar - hopefully it will be as much in evidence on the route as it is in this thread. Good luck with that.
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austin.timm
May 5, 2008, 8:25 PM
Post #27 of 39
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joeforte wrote: [quote "austin.timm Ok, I was definitely thinking about stacking screamers anyway, so I'm glad we're on the same page there. I was initially going to use a belay device though so at least I don't take a long fall right after leaving the belay.
The extra rope leftover if you don't use a belay device will eliminate the risk of a factor 2 if you fall early, because there will be more rope out to catch the fall. The fall will be much longer, but the fall factor will be smaller.
For example: Climber falls 20 feet out, no pro.
1. Using a belay device, the fall will be 40 feet, with a fall factor of 2 (40foot fall/20 feet of rope out)
2. Just tying in the end (50 ft. required to finish the pitch), the fall will be 70 feet, but the fall factor will be 1.4 (70 foot fall with 50 feet of rope out.
Plus, when using Angry's method, you can use one of those KONG energy absorbers clipped in to your harness with a few feet of slack to reduce the impact even more (maybe FF 1ish?).
Much less insane than FF2ing your anchor, and still
proud.
Nice, it keeps getting better 
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stymingersfink
May 5, 2008, 9:38 PM
Post #28 of 39
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austin.timm wrote: altelis wrote: doesn't a fall from near the top (unless its a terribly short climb) NEGATE the possibility of a high fall factor? fall factor is, essentially, (fall distance)/(amount of rope out) so unless you are soloing the WHOLE pitch and fall the whole way down to the anchor you won't get a factor two. even on a terribly protected aid climb it seems like you should only be closer to a factor 1.... this is mainly from an intuitive understanding and assuming you aren't climbing an A6+++++++ (oh yes, it does exist....) route.... Hooking on a 20m pitch off the belay with no pro causes a fall factor two. If you can provide evidence otherwise please do. Furthermore I asked people to respond if they have used the device and taken such a fall. The other two people at least suggested that I try a different forum.
Hooking 20m off the belay with no pro will not cause a FF2. The only thing that will cause a FF2 in the situation you describe is YOU, if you FUCK UP.
In the event that you DO fuck up, you're going to want to make sure you're not going to hit anything on the way down. Also, you might try to protect the anchor with a series of Screamers.
I'm curious though, aside from your belay device questions... what route are you thinking of getting on?
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billcoe_
May 5, 2008, 10:03 PM
Post #30 of 39
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Like Angrys idea.
I've been reading this thread for some time and although I have no experience in this, but how about bringing extra hooks, taping them with the super sticky Gorilla brand duct tape and leaving them in-situ, or in place, for pro? Ken Nichols was doing this successfully on free routes years ago with regular duct tape back east years ago, and looking at ground fall, not airfall. The Gorilla stuff is better.
Bring extra screamers for the hooks.
______________________________________________
Second idea, bring a 2nd rope, a light 7.8mm - 8mm tag line tied off to your harness in case.
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healyje
May 5, 2008, 10:08 PM
Post #31 of 39
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Angry, a single, regular screamer in the [rope] configuration you show will accomplish everything you want in the event of a 120' winger. Either put the Kong device on the anchor or the screamer either will do the job - but if you are contemplating falling directly on the anchor then I'd just use the screamer. Don't use the Kong device or a screamer anywhere on your person.
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stymingersfink
May 5, 2008, 10:25 PM
Post #32 of 39
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billcoe_ wrote: Like Angrys idea. I've been reading this thread for some time and although I have no experience in this, but how about bringing extra hooks, taping them with the super sticky Gorilla brand duct tape and leaving them in-situ, or in place, for pro? Ken Nichols was doing this successfully on free routes years ago with regular duct tape back east years ago, and looking at ground fall, not airfall. The Gorilla stuff is better. Bring extra screamers for the hooks. ______________________________________________ Second idea, bring a 2nd rope, a light 7.8mm - 8mm tag line tied off to your harness in case.
The taped hooks idea seems like providing yourself with a false sense of security if you ask me, though an exception might exist with the Captain Hook that Fish made (makes?). Any other hook is going to un-bend itself before you come to a full and complete stop, pretty much guaranteed. I've got a Cliffhanger in my possession that would support this theory.
I, however, would be willing to change my tune if someone had some video of a test subject taking a whipper onto a taped hook proving otherwise. Post up!
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angry
May 5, 2008, 10:36 PM
Post #33 of 39
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Without the use of a friggen bolt ladder, there is no way to actually get around the risks of this pitch.
One screamer, five screamers, taped hooks, Wren Solo Aid, GriGri, it doesn't matter. This is not a situation where you can fall and I think Austin knows this.
I wonder how tricky the pitch is? Straight forward hooking off good edges or something more sinister? This might also influence the gear list.
I say good for you for thinking about this so much. It would be pretty easy to hang a hammer and rockpecker off the back of your harness. It's kind of refreshing that this hasn't been brought up.
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austin.timm
May 6, 2008, 2:12 AM
Post #35 of 39
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stymingersfink wrote: I'm curious though, aside from your belay device questions... what route are you thinking of getting on?
Let's just say that it will be a new variation that accesses a new crack system on a big wall somewhere in Montana and that is just about all I am going to say about it.
angry wrote: Without the use of a friggen bolt ladder, there is no way to actually get around the risks of this pitch. One screamer, five screamers, taped hooks, Wren Solo Aid, GriGri, it doesn't matter. This is not a situation where you can fall and I think Austin knows this. I wonder how tricky the pitch is? Straight forward hooking off good edges or something more sinister? This might also influence the gear list. I say good for you for thinking about this so much. It would be pretty easy to hang a hammer and rockpecker off the back of your harness. It's kind of refreshing that this hasn't been brought up.
It is fairly straightforward hooking but unfortunately this section has medium at best rock quality.
A bolt would be nice to alleviate the fear factor. But I would prefer to save that garbage for anchors and not spoil an exciting hookfest - read: contribute to the aid climbing stereotype of Maestri type people... There is no real need to bolt unless you were guaranteed a ledge/ground fall or a high speed crashing pendulum into a dihedral. That is why they invented screamers right? Ha ha...
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 2:24 AM
Post #36 of 39
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austin.timm wrote: stymingersfink wrote: I'm curious though, aside from your belay device questions... what route are you thinking of getting on? Let's just say that it will be a new variation that accesses a new crack system on a big wall somewhere in Montana and that is just about all I am going to say about it.
austin.timm wrote: angry wrote: Without the use of a friggen bolt ladder, there is no way to actually get around the risks of this pitch. One screamer, five screamers, taped hooks, Wren Solo Aid, GriGri, it doesn't matter. This is not a situation where you can fall and I think Austin knows this. I wonder how tricky the pitch is? Straight forward hooking off good edges or something more sinister? This might also influence the gear list. I say good for you for thinking about this so much. It would be pretty easy to hang a hammer and rockpecker off the back of your harness. It's kind of refreshing that this hasn't been brought up. It is fairly straightforward hooking but unfortunately this section has medium at best rock quality. A bolt would be nice to alleviate the fear factor. But I would prefer to save that garbage for anchors and not spoil an exciting hookfest - read: contribute to the aid climbing stereotype of Maestri type people... There is no real need to bolt unless you were guaranteed a ledge/ground fall or a high speed crashing pendulum into a dihedral. That is why they invented screamers right? Ha ha...  .
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 2:29 AM
Post #37 of 39
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Oh, and here's another little hook-fest somewhat resembling what you describe. The difference being that it's seen enough traffic to have cleaned up pretty well.
Still kind of heady, especially stepping out of the aiders to a sloped ramp 35-40' off the anchor. I have no doubt that the rivit clipped there would have done absolutely nothing to keep me off the blocky tower out of sight below my belayer, or out of the morgue had I F'd Up.
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austin.timm
May 6, 2008, 6:27 AM
Post #38 of 39
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stymingersfink wrote: austin.timm wrote: Let's just say that it will be a new variation that accesses a new crack system on a big wall somewhere in Montana and that is just about all I am going to say about it. Fair enough. Get after it, though it sounds like I'll be up in the Montana area next week for work if you're not too far off the ground and you need a partner.
To be honest I would take you up on it but I am enrolled in the WFR course beginning on Monday and lasting through Sunday the 17th; all 8 hour class days and a few nights. Do you make it up here often? I would be willing to climb another time. or possibly get down to Utah  I've never climbed there before...
P.S. That was a cool picture of you hooking. Rarely do I get good pics taken of me. Ha Ha
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 2:36 PM
Post #39 of 39
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austin.timm wrote: stymingersfink wrote: austin.timm wrote: Let's just say that it will be a new variation that accesses a new crack system on a big wall somewhere in Montana and that is just about all I am going to say about it. Fair enough. Get after it, though it sounds like I'll be up in the Montana area next week for work if you're not too far off the ground and you need a partner. To be honest I would take you up on it but I am enrolled in the WFR course beginning on Monday and lasting through Sunday the 17th; all 8 hour class days and a few nights. Do you make it up here often? I would be willing to climb another time. or possibly get down to Utah I've never climbed there before... P.S. That was a cool picture of you hooking. Rarely do I get good pics taken of me. Ha Ha
Yeah, its hard to get good shots of yourself when you're soloing, isn't it?
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kong.jpg
