|
|
|
|
reno
May 9, 2008, 5:25 AM
Post #26 of 37
(994 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
In no way should the following be taken as tolerance of China's actions toward Tibet, condoning the actions of China, or otherwise.
HOWEVER.
Some of the pictures in the links are duplicates. For example, there's a guy with several gunshots, one (maybe two, hard to tell if they're separate wounds or it's an entrance/exit) in his right biceps area, one in the right armpit area. This guy is shown at least four times, perhaps more.
http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/18.jpg
http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/19.jpg
http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/28.jpg
http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/29.jpg
All the same person.
That, IMHO, takes away a measure of integrity of the reporting. Not saying it isn't tragic, but why embellish a tragedy? The tragedy should stand on it's own merits (and, for the most part, it does.) It ought not be aggrandized to make a point.
Still and all, China is hardly a shining example of human rights.
(This post was edited by reno on May 9, 2008, 5:30 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
blondgecko
Moderator
May 9, 2008, 5:45 AM
Post #27 of 37
(983 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
|
reno wrote: In no way should the following be taken as tolerance of China's actions toward Tibet, condoning the actions of China, or otherwise. HOWEVER. Some of the pictures in the links are duplicates. For example, there's a guy with several gunshots, one (maybe two, hard to tell if they're separate wounds or it's an entrance/exit) in his right biceps area, one in the right armpit area. This guy is shown at least four times, perhaps more. http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/18.jpg http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/19.jpg http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/28.jpg http://88.80.13.160/leak/tibet-protest-photos/29.jpg All the same person. That, IMHO, takes away a measure of integrity of the reporting. Not saying it isn't tragic, but why embellish a tragedy? The tragedy should stand on it's own merits (and, for the most part, it does.) It ought not be aggrandized to make a point. Still and all, China is hardly a shining example of human rights.
Well, it is a wiki. Not necessary embellishment, just a side effect of many different people making submissions.
|
|
|
|
|
kimsismour
May 9, 2008, 12:38 PM
Post #28 of 37
(975 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2005
Posts: 87
|
I clicked the link, and this is definintly wrong and inhumane. I never denyed that. And everyone that is doing that to other people should be punished, my point is, IMHO the US is not the world police (though we sure like to think so), so why is it our duty to stop this on our own. It is someone elses turn to step up to the plate. I agree FREE TIBET, there is no reason for what is going on over there. This is the reason why I don't watch the news anymore. Yes it leads to ignorance on my part, but it is deeply saddening to me that one human can do this to another.
|
|
|
|
|
roninthorne
May 9, 2008, 2:04 PM
Post #29 of 37
(960 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 659
|
kimsismour wrote: ...who am I to say what china should, and should not do. It's their own country, they can do what they want, and quite honestly, I don't belive it's our countries problem to deal with it. Personally I feel the protests agains the olympics is sending the wrong message overall. The Olympics are about bring the world togeather, not shunning parts of it out.
kimsismour wrote: I clicked the link, and this is definintly wrong and inhumane. I never denyed that. And everyone that is doing that to other people should be punished, my point is, IMHO the US is not the world police (though we sure like to think so), so why is it our duty to stop this on our own. It is someone elses turn to step up to the plate. I agree FREE TIBET, there is no reason for what is going on over there. This is the reason why I don't watch the news anymore. Yes it leads to ignorance on my part, but it is deeply saddening to me that one human can do this to another.
So let me see if I've got this straight- Who are you to say what China should or should not do?
How about a moderately moral person with even a trace of concern for human rights and environmental responsibility? Like whoever it was you talked to before your second post, in which you quite clearly say what China should and should not do (you know, treating people in an inhumane fashion, for which action you say they should be punished).
"Its their own country and they can do as they want..."
No, youth... the point is that it's NOT their own country... anymore than Poland was Hitler's own country in 1939, or Yugoslavia/Hungary, Poland, etc part of the USSR before the tanks rolled in. It is a country they invaded by means of brute force, shelling unarmed Buddhist monks with artillery. Kind of like how we shot up Native Americans with .45 cal carbines and Gatling guns so we could kill the buffalo for sport and carve the faces of our dead Presidents on their sacred mountains- see, I know we are not without sin, but someone has to take a stand and people who have recognized their own past errors are usually a bit more convicted.
The Olympics may once have been about bringing the world together, but they have far more often been used as a political platform than not. Jesse Owens was the greatest possible symbolic slap in the face to Hitler. The years after the Wall came down, the former USSR satellites used them to announce their independent existance and worth and to solidify their own nationalistic identity. Now they are prety much about who has the best training facilities, and has learned the best ways of hiding doping.
But I digress... Why is it our duty to stop this on our own? No one said it was. but we are the world's leading customer for Chinese goods and services, so when the fat guy paying the biggest tab says "That ain't right!" it means a little bit more than someone like, say, Belgium or Switzerland doing the same thing. Their opinion presents no possible incursion on China's gross national income.
(Not that the US is likely to do too much... we owe China too much money to really muddy our own credit score too badly, and with Dubya still insisting that the economy is in as good a position as, well, that "accomplished mission" we've been sending our teens off to die in, we don't really can't afford to.)
It is someone else's turn to step up to the plate. And who, my little geography major, would that be? The fragmented states of the USSR, who are having their own human rights and democratic government issues? The tiny, minimally-armed nations of the EEU? Maybe genocidal Africa, where the latter-day descendant of all the folks our ancestors didn't buy from their own Muslim countrymen are now preying upon each other in a fashion that makes Mao, Stalin, and Hitler look like junior league amateurs?
You'd be better off standing in line and waiting for a cheeseburger in Myanmar than waiting for anyone besides the U.S. to step up on this one. We may not be the world police, but at least we care enough to try to be, however paradoxical our involvment and policies may be.
(Yes, there is a patriot at the heart of this crusty old curmudgeon... he just doesn't get out much between mortar strikes on Falcon Press and its authors.)
In the end analysis, what you're saying seems to be "FREE TIBET... jest let someone else do it, umkay, cuz I gotta go upload my video to YouTube and post on RC.com instead of watching the news, having an informed opinion, and taking a moral stand on anything more significant than whether the blue hold is on for the right foot."
If ignorance is bliss, you should be damned near in a state of ecstacy.
|
|
|
|
|
wanderlustmd
May 9, 2008, 2:28 PM
Post #30 of 37
(950 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
retro wrote: Any thoughts about this one folks??? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080508/ap_on_re_as/olympic_torch
|
|
|
|
|
bread_delivery
May 9, 2008, 2:41 PM
Post #31 of 37
(928 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 10
|
Classic. Can't add anything to your rant, Mike, but pretty much sums up my take on it as well. Oh, and yes - totally fake - flame never made it to the top.
|
|
|
|
|
kostik
May 9, 2008, 3:37 PM
Post #32 of 37
(858 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2005
Posts: 275
|
blondgecko wrote: Do you think they should do this?*
Reminds me: Palestinian terrorists shoot at Israelis from behind civilian mob. Israelis shoot back. A child gets killed in cross-fire. Palestinians take pictures of the kid's body (from several angles for better visual effect) and post them on the Internet. This method of drawing fire to civilian targets to accuse the opposing side of atrocities was developed by the Nobel Peace laureate Yassir Arafat in early 70's.
As far as Tibet goes, we don't know all circumstances of how these people were killed. They might have been looting shops, burning cars and shooting at the army.
I think the West must use the Olympics as an opportunity to speak to Chinese people on the street. Many of them have never seen foreigners. It's like Moscow Olympics in 1980. The same kids who mooched bubble-gum from the foreigners on the streets of Moscow in 1980 to re-sell it later, have become businessmen and politicians who overthrew the Communists in 1991. If the USA did not boycott Moscow Olympics, this overthrow might have happened earlier.
|
|
|
|
|
austin.timm
May 9, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #33 of 37
(834 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 17, 2007
Posts: 96
|
I would have loved to see the Tibetans on the summit make a mutiny against the Han and choke slam their bitch asses right there on international TV - I mean hard too. And then kick them in the nuts or something for added effect.
|
|
|
|
|
retro
May 9, 2008, 4:14 PM
Post #34 of 37
(831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2004
Posts: 310
|
My wife and I (after viewing the video footage of the summit team) wondered a couple of things:
first and foremost was the video's authenticity...it looks totally sketchy (suspect) at best. I am no Conrad Anker or Doug Scott, but the look on my face at 21,000 was not one of joy and serenity (supplimental oxygen or not!!). I can't for the life of me imagine what it must feel like at almost 30,000 ft!!! I am just not buying that footage?!!?
secondly, we had to wonder what type of Coercion it took to get the Tibetans up there? Did they threaten harm to their families and friends, bodily harm, did they offer money, land??? I wonder how this whole story will play out in the end?
(This post was edited by retro on May 9, 2008, 4:15 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
reg
May 9, 2008, 4:15 PM
Post #35 of 37
(825 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
kimsismour wrote: ....IMOH I am not sure where my feeling sit with the whole china thing. ......but who am I to say what china should, and should not do. It's their own country, they can do what they want, and quite honestly, I don't belive it's our countries problem to deal with it.
hitler would have loved you......
u are a thinking human being (hopefully) and have a right to have an opinion, make a judgement, and say something is wrong!
kimsismour wrote: ....Personally I feel the protests agains the olympics is sending the wrong message overall. The Olympics are about bring the world togeather, not shunning parts of it out.
so.... let's bring into the fold a communist ddictatorship that kills it's own people. think: titeaennamin square!
|
|
|
|
|
WVUCLMBR
May 9, 2008, 4:39 PM
Post #36 of 37
(808 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 20, 2007
Posts: 668
|
If it is fake I'm sure the Chinese have taken the necessary steps:
1. Killed entire summit team (no interviews)
2. Killed families of all summit team (just in case)
3. Only released video edited for content.
4. Destroyed "torch" so it can't be proven later that that torch wouldn't work @ 30k feet with serious winds.
This whole sham probably cost a couple hundred Chinese lives....
I hope Michael Phelps drops a deuce in the pool after his last event.....
|
|
|
|
|
retro
May 9, 2008, 4:47 PM
Post #37 of 37
(799 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2004
Posts: 310
|
WVUCLMBR wrote: If it is fake I'm sure the Chinese have taken the necessary steps: 1. Killed entire summit team (no interviews) 2. Killed families of all summit team (just in case) 3. Only released video edited for content. 4. Destroyed "torch" so it can't be proven later that that torch wouldn't work @ 30k feet with serious winds.
LOL....loved the deuce comment!!!  Obviously all good comments and points you made here. I guess any kind of slip would really throw a wrench in the whole plan of their chest pounding!!!
Still though....
|
|
|
|
|
|
