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monkeychild
May 10, 2008, 3:19 AM
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Hi everybody -
I know this subject has already been discussed on here, but that was a while ago and I feel like the situation might be different now.
I just got a good deal on a petzl nomad. It looks like a good rope, and it feels nice, and it's a pretty bright green color. It's only rated to 7 UIAA falls, 9.8 mm.....
I looked up *petzl ropes* on this forum, and found multiple threads complaining about the bad quality of petzl ropes. Many ropes had reportedly frayed and seen core shots within a few weeks of use. I always have trusted petzl and had good experiences with them, but this is their first rope that I've bought.
I would think with so many complaints and so many ropes being sent back to petzl, they would have tried to fix this obvious problem.
My question is: who here has used the petzl nomad? For those that have, what have been your experiences with this rope?
Thanks much.
Monkeychild
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ja1484
May 10, 2008, 4:19 AM
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Just two general points:
1) AFAIK the complaints have been specifically in regard to the Petzl Zephyr, which seemed to have some sheath issues. Petzl was made aware of it, and to my knowledge is still investigating the situation. Someone feel free to chime in if they know the results of that inquiry.
2) "Only" 7 UIAA falls? How many do you need? I'd climb on any rope that did more than 2.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on May 10, 2008, 2:51 PM)
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vegastradguy
May 10, 2008, 1:13 PM
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as ja1484 said, the problems only retain to the zephyr.
as for the nomad, everyone i know who has this rope loves it....which is really weird considering how many problems petzl had with the zephyr.
it is, though, a little stiffer than other ropes, so keep that in mind.
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a.frosch
May 10, 2008, 1:55 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: it is, though, a little stiffer than other ropes, so keep that in mind.
This is very true. After about 3 mos. of use (Nomad), mine is still super stiff, and there are some parts of the sheath that are wearing through where they shouldn't be. With other ropes I have abused them much more and seen much less wear on the sheath.
I know some people who have the Nomad and love it. Personally I think it's a piece of crap.
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monkeychild
May 10, 2008, 4:08 PM
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In reply to: This is very true. After about 3 mos. of use (Nomad), mine is still super stiff, and there are some parts of the sheath that are wearing through where they shouldn't be. With other ropes I have abused them much more and seen much less wear on the sheath. I know some people who have the Nomad and love it. Personally I think it's a piece of crap.
Funny.. I haven't climbed on mine yet, I've only flaked it and coiled it a billion times in my house. Even so, it doesn't feel especially stiff.....
2 other questions for you:
Is your rope wearing through near the middle and end markers?
What kind of abuse are you putting it through? (i.e. what kind of climbing are you doing and how often?)
I'm just wondering why people's experiences differ so much.
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monkeychild
May 10, 2008, 4:17 PM
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ja1484,
1. Right. The only big complaints I've heard have been in regard to the Petzl Zephyr. It just seemed weird that petzl didn't do a recall on the ropes as soon as they noticed there was a problem. That was nearly a year ago, was it not? And they're *still* investigating the situation?
2. Yeah, I know 7 UIAA falls is over the top already. I've always associated the number of falls and the overall durability of the rope. Compared to my last rope (11 UIAA falls), 7 isn't that much.
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ja1484
May 10, 2008, 4:36 PM
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monkeychild wrote: ja1484, 1. Right. The only big complaints I've heard have been in regard to the Petzl Zephyr. It just seemed weird that petzl didn't do a recall on the ropes as soon as they noticed there was a problem. That was nearly a year ago, was it not? And they're *still* investigating the situation?
You'd have to ask them. FWIW, I haven't heard of any accidents due to a problematic Petzl rope. I'd just steer clear of that model though.
In reply to: 2. Yeah, I know 7 UIAA falls is over the top already. I've always associated the number of falls and the overall durability of the rope. Compared to my last rope (11 UIAA falls), 7 isn't that much.
Not the best association. Durability really has more to do with sheath thickness than anything else. That's why Sterling's Marathon series tends to be very durable, but is "only" rated for 5 or 6 UIAA falls. It has a very thick sheath.
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monkeychild
May 10, 2008, 4:43 PM
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In reply to: Not the best association. Durability really has more to do with sheath thickness than anything else. That's why Sterling's Marathon series tends to be very durable, but is "only" rated for 5 or 6 UIAA falls. It has a very thick sheath.
Thanks for the clarification.
Silly question: why does the number of falls matter? I doubt if anyone ever takes even 1 UIAA fall......
Another silly question: are there ropes that go below, say, 4 or 5 UIAA falls?
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ja1484
May 10, 2008, 5:06 PM
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monkeychild wrote: In reply to: Not the best association. Durability really has more to do with sheath thickness than anything else. That's why Sterling's Marathon series tends to be very durable, but is "only" rated for 5 or 6 UIAA falls. It has a very thick sheath. Thanks for the clarification. Silly question: why does the number of falls matter? I doubt if anyone ever takes even 1 UIAA fall...... Another silly question: are there ropes that go below, say, 4 or 5 UIAA falls?
Number of UIAA falls is basically an indicator of the number of *repeated*, *back to back* severe falls a rope can withstand with no rest to regain elasticity.
I agree, I doubt most people ever take a single UIAA fall, which has a very high factor of 1.8something. But we want our gear tested and built for worst-case scenarios. And it is *very* possible to take such a fall once you get into multi-pitch trad climbing and beyond, which is why it's important to know the significance of such fall factors, and what they mean to your gear and your safety.
See, the role of a dynamic rope in a climbing system is to act as a shock absorber, and most of this is due to the way the rope is woven/twisted together. Because of the construction, there is stretch in the rope, which dissipates force when we fall, and keeps us from:
1) breaking our spines when the rope catches.
2) putting excessively high loads on the protection.
As long as you "rest" the rope between falls and allow it to regain elasticity, the rope itself is taking very little wear and tear from the falls themselves. The stretch is dissipating most of the force, not the inherent strength of the nylon.
Ever notice how after a few good falls or long hangs, your rope feels noticably stiffer? Decreased stretch.
Static ropes have almost no stretch, which makes them unfit for lead-climbing because of the two reasons I listed above (primarily...there are also other more minor reasons).
So to bring this all together, when ropes finally snap in UIAA tests, they've been repeatedly dropped so severely, so many times, so close together, that the rope has elasticity of steel cable on that final drop. The massive impact force this causes is too much for the nylon.
Luckily, this situation never really occurs in the real world, which is why you commonly hear these days that "climbing ropes don't break". I agree - they have to be cut, chemically damaged, or exceptionally old (greater than 10 years of heavy usage) to fail.
This is a link to Sterling Rope's Technical Manual on rope construction. It will answer many of your questions. I recommend reading it in its entirety:
http://www.sterlingrope.com/...gdocs/techmanual.pdf
As far as I am aware, the lowest fall ratings on single ropes currently is 5 for thin lines like the Mammut Serenity.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on May 10, 2008, 6:38 PM)
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a.frosch
May 10, 2008, 6:01 PM
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monkeychild wrote: In reply to: This is very true. After about 3 mos. of use (Nomad), mine is still super stiff, and there are some parts of the sheath that are wearing through where they shouldn't be. With other ropes I have abused them much more and seen much less wear on the sheath. I know some people who have the Nomad and love it. Personally I think it's a piece of crap. Funny.. I haven't climbed on mine yet, I've only flaked it and coiled it a billion times in my house. Even so, it doesn't feel especially stiff..... 2 other questions for you: Is your rope wearing through near the middle and end markers? What kind of abuse are you putting it through? (i.e. what kind of climbing are you doing and how often?) I'm just wondering why people's experiences differ so much.
It's wearing near the end markers.
As for how much abuse, I took it ice climbing a bunch this winter, but definitely never stepped on it w/ crampons or anything. I didn't notice any wear and tear. But just about the third or fourth time I took it out this spring I noticed some fraying around the sheath. The only thing I could possibly think of that could have caused it was when I was toproping a steep slab and the rope ran over a bulge (not sharp). But I've done that plenty with other ropes and not had this problem.
I honestly don't know why people have such different experiences with this rope. Maybe it's a batch issue...?
Peace
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jt512
May 10, 2008, 6:36 PM
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monkeychild wrote: Silly question: why does the number of falls matter? I doubt if anyone ever takes even 1 UIAA fall......
Why do you doubt that?
In reply to: Another silly question: are there ropes that go below, say, 4 or 5 UIAA falls?
They all do after they've been used for a while. That should also answer your first "silly question."
Jay
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GeneralBenson
May 11, 2008, 12:54 AM
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Yeah I certainly wouldn't assume that people don't take UIAA falls. If I remember correctly, a UIAA fall is a factor 1.68 fall, right? So the highest possible fall is factor 2, right onto the anchor. So it happens man. Do it a few times in a row and you've got a problem, but that on the other hand, should never happen.
Also, as far as ropes going for 4 or 5 falls. I assume you are talking about new ropes. Again, if i remember correctly, new ropes have to get 6 falls to pass the UIAA specifications. However, (and someone call me on this, but I'm pretty sure it's the case) the UIAA only tests ropes to the sixth fall. If it breaks before 6, it's a fail. If it holds 6, it's a pass, no more testing. So that being said, anything claimed over 6 falls is manufacturers claims, not the UIAA. That doesn't mean that they're not simulating the same test, but it's their own claim. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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vegastradguy
May 11, 2008, 12:57 PM
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no, the UIAA tests until failure.
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j_ung
May 11, 2008, 1:52 PM
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I used a Nomad the other day that was, I think, about a half year old. Seemed okay to me.
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GeneralBenson
May 12, 2008, 3:02 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: no, the UIAA tests until failure.
Ok cool. It was something I heard once, and I was never sure if it was true, but it sounded good.
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ja1484
May 12, 2008, 3:06 AM
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GeneralBenson wrote: vegastradguy wrote: no, the UIAA tests until failure. Ok cool. It was something I heard once, and I was never sure if it was true, but it sounded good.
Also worth noting: The UIAA fall is a fall factor 1.78, and the minimum is 5 falls held for a rope to be UIAA certed.
Just FYI. I had to look up the fall factor myself.
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GeneralBenson
May 12, 2008, 12:50 PM
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Looks I was wrong all around. Haha. I was debating in my head whether it was 1.78 or 1.68, and I guessed wrong. Well the point is, ropes are kinda strong.
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Trevor_J
Nov 28, 2008, 2:58 PM
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Anyone heard any more on these ropes.
I had the same issue with the sheath melting back in August. I was on an overhanging route and the draw I fell on was at the lip of an overhang so the lower crab (BD Neutrino) of the draw was hanging below the lip. After I fell I jugged back up the rope and notice that the sheath had crystalized......this was a VIRGIN rope.....first climb on it. Anyhow, it was pretty fuzzed up after the other 3 folks were finished with the route. Didn't use it after.
Sent it to Petzl for analysis along with a sketch/description of the climb. They said it was "normal" wear. WTF? It's normal for the sheath to melt like that??? Haha! They told me to climb on it and if the sheath gets worse, then they would replace it then. Well, i wonder what would happen to the rope if the sheath is already damage.....kinda a no brainer....duhhhh! Anyhow, talked to the GREAT people at MountainGear and they HAPPILY replaced the rope without question.
Is this still an issue with these ropes? Seems the discussion has died.
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ja1484
Nov 28, 2008, 3:43 PM
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I really wouldn't know. I have nothing to do with Petzl ropes, but it doesn't have to do with worries about quality. They're ridiculously overpriced, and there are better options for less money. Simple.
I do love their new line of harnesses to death though.
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hibby11
Nov 28, 2008, 4:43 PM
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I remembered reading a long while back about the issues with Zephyr and since it seemed focused on that one model I wasn't concerned when I received a Fuse 9.4 as a gift.
After taking it on one trip to the valley this rope was fuzzed and worn in areas that barely even touched the rock. It probably saw 10 pitches of travel on single and multipitch routes.
Upon my return I sent the rope into Petzl and bought a Sterling. Having easily put in 20 times as many pitches in on that it still looks brand new.
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monkeychild
Nov 30, 2008, 12:03 AM
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I've been using my rope for a good 6 months now. It's seen heavy use - once or twice a week on limestone and sandstone and lots of big falls.
It still looks brand new and it handles beautifully.
It's odd - it seems that petzl has an obvious defect in their rope-making, but it also seems that it only affects a select few ropes. They seem to be ignoring it too. Trevor - what you describe does not sound like normal wear.
MC
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robdotcalm
Nov 30, 2008, 12:39 AM
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I wouldn’t buy a rope from a company that has had problems with its product and has been completely non-responsive.
r.c
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Trevor_J
Nov 30, 2008, 12:47 AM
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yah, not sure what to think of it. I'm kinda in a moral dilemma as well. Here I sit with a brand new rope. Should I use it and see if the same thing happens? Thus starting another round of trying to get it "replaced". Or try to sell it and let it be someone elses problem.....if I could actually get someone to buy it that is.
Its just strange that Petzl won't replace the defect, but places like Mountain Gear & REI will step up and do the right thing.
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therat
Nov 30, 2008, 1:13 AM
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I own a Nomad and a Zephyr. No problems with either. The Nomad is one of the finest handling ropes I've ever owned... and it was my 17th...
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climber_for_life78
Dec 7, 2008, 7:53 PM
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monkeychild wrote: I've been using my rope for a good 6 months now. It's seen heavy use - once or twice a week on limestone and sandstone and lots of big falls. It still looks brand new and it handles beautifully. It's odd - it seems that petzl has an obvious defect in their rope-making, but it also seems that it only affects a select few ropes. They seem to be ignoring it too. Trevor - what you describe does not sound like normal wear. MC
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