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jeremy11
May 18, 2008, 3:26 AM
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Anyone tried the Petzl Quickfix Adjustable Daisies?
http://en.petzl.com/...=533&Activite=71
they look a lot like the Metolius adj daisies. Are they any good for easy-medium aid?
Also, how about getting adjustable harness buckles like this one:
http://www.onrope1.com/...;id=118&parent=4
and threading 1" tubular webbing through it for a really cheap life support strength adj daisy!
how would that work?
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majid_sabet
May 18, 2008, 4:25 AM
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why not get a 7 meter of 7 mm cord and make yourself an adjustable PURCELL PRUSIK Dasiy
it is safer, it is been tested and it is cheaper than any other daisy out there.
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jeremy11
May 19, 2008, 5:35 AM
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I might look into that. we use prussiks for lobster claws and pole wraps for high ropes course building and facilitating all the time.
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tomtom
May 19, 2008, 3:25 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: why not get a 7 meter of 7 mm cord and make yourself an adjustable PURCELL PRUSIK Dasiy it is safer, it is been tested and it is cheaper than any other daisy out there.
Have you ever aid climbed with this?
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fenderfour
May 19, 2008, 3:37 PM
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The Petzl daisies imply that you can release them. I assume you can release them under load. This is a big issue with the Metolius Easy Daisies - they can not be released under load.
The cinch buckle you showed would work, but it would be difficult to loosen one-handed and impossible to loosen under load.
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jeremy11
May 19, 2008, 6:49 PM
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those are my main questions on the harness buckles (adjusting longer and releasing under load). I've contacted onrope1 and will post their response.
Majid - how well does the purcell prussik work for aid climbing - ease of adjustability shorter and longer, and releasing under load (probably a big NO with prusiks) - can it go short enough for top stepping? can it be adjusted shorter one handed?
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trenchdigger
May 19, 2008, 7:00 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: those are my main questions on the harness buckles (adjusting longer and releasing under load). I've contacted onrope1 and will post their response. Majid - how well does the purcell prussik work for aid climbing - ease of adjustability shorter and longer, and releasing under load (probably a big NO with prusiks) - can it go short enough for top stepping? can it be adjusted shorter one handed?
Purcells would suck for aid compared to adjustable daisies. You can only adjust a purcell from its full length down to half its length (which isn't short enough). On top of that, they're definitely not easy to shorten with one hand.
I've experimented with some fully adjustable daisies (adjustable throughout their length, and with one hand) tied out of cord using friction knots, and they work decently, but not as nice as manufactured adjustable daisies.
(This post was edited by trenchdigger on May 19, 2008, 7:02 PM)
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moof
May 19, 2008, 11:02 PM
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Never used them. It looks like those will have the same issue that Metolius ones have, you can't release them under tension.
Doing horizontal traverse moves are much easier with the Yates style where you can release tension and lower yourself out without unweighting the daisy. Top stepping also can be really awkward if you need to get a couple inches of slack to stand up, and the stupid daisy won't release.
Just get the Yates ones. Presently they are the best on the market. Don't get the built in screamer. Instead make sure your sequence doesn't allow daisy falls of any real length (i.e. clip the lower piece into the rope, then remove the daisy from the lower piece BEFORE you extend out again).
(This post was edited by moof on May 19, 2008, 11:05 PM)
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fenderfour
May 19, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Those buckles will NOT release under load. I've got a similar bukcle on my aiders.
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majid_sabet
May 19, 2008, 11:08 PM
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trenchdigger wrote: jeremy11 wrote: those are my main questions on the harness buckles (adjusting longer and releasing under load). I've contacted onrope1 and will post their response. Majid - how well does the purcell prussik work for aid climbing - ease of adjustability shorter and longer, and releasing under load (probably a big NO with prusiks) - can it go short enough for top stepping? can it be adjusted shorter one handed? Purcells would suck for aid compared to adjustable daisies. You can only adjust a purcell from its full length down to half its length (which isn't short enough). On top of that, they're definitely not easy to shorten with one hand. I've experimented with some fully adjustable daisies (adjustable throughout their length, and with one hand) tied out of cord using friction knots, and they work decently, but not as nice as manufactured adjustable daisies.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 20, 2008, 5:04 AM)
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trenchdigger
May 20, 2008, 4:48 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: trenchdigger wrote: jeremy11 wrote: those are my main questions on the harness buckles (adjusting longer and releasing under load). I've contacted onrope1 and will post their response. Majid - how well does the purcell prussik work for aid climbing - ease of adjustability shorter and longer, and releasing under load (probably a big NO with prusiks) - can it go short enough for top stepping? can it be adjusted shorter one handed? Purcells would suck for aid compared to adjustable daisies. You can only adjust a purcell from its full length down to half its length (which isn't short enough). On top of that, they're definitely not easy to shorten with one hand. I've experimented with some fully adjustable daisies (adjustable throughout their length, and with one hand) tied out of cord using friction knots, and they work decently, but not as nice as manufactured adjustable daisies. May adjustable daisies are comfortable to work with in aid climbing and other applications but I still think some serious test must be conduct with them especially drop test.
It doesn't matter. When used properly in aid, daisies are not part of the life safety system. They're simply for making progress up the route.
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jeremy11
May 20, 2008, 3:43 PM
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so, Fish Products uses Ancra buckles for their adjustable daisies. Here is just the buckle for sale:
http://www.therainshed.com/buckles.htm
thread with 1" webbing (maybe flat??) use water knots for all the end loops, and sew down the tails for security. You could even reduce some harness clutter by using one super long piece of webbing with a knot in the middle girth hitched to your harness, and the cam buckle rig on either end.
$2 per buckle!
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russwalling
May 20, 2008, 5:26 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: so, Fish Products uses Ancra buckles for their adjustable daisies. Here is just the buckle for sale: http://www.therainshed.com/buckles.htm thread with 1" webbing (maybe flat??) use water knots for all the end loops, and sew down the tails for security. You could even reduce some harness clutter by using one super long piece of webbing with a knot in the middle girth hitched to your harness, and the cam buckle rig on either end. $2 per buckle! [image]http://www.therainshed.com/photogallery/photo00010354/ANCRA_95.jpg[/image]
That is NOT the buckle we use on our Adj. Daisy Chains and is not recommended for daisy chains. That buckle is too small for the requisite webbing, and not strong enough for the task.
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jeremy11
May 20, 2008, 5:28 PM
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Good info, thanks.
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moof
May 20, 2008, 6:26 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: so, Fish Products uses Ancra buckles for their adjustable daisies. Here is just the buckle for sale: http://www.therainshed.com/buckles.htm thread with 1" webbing (maybe flat??) use water knots for all the end loops, and sew down the tails for security. You could even reduce some harness clutter by using one super long piece of webbing with a knot in the middle girth hitched to your harness, and the cam buckle rig on either end. $2 per buckle! [image]http://www.therainshed.com/photogallery/photo00010354/ANCRA_95.jpg[/image]
This is the buckle:
[urlhttp://www.strapworks.com/Cam_Buckle_p/mcbm1.htm
The Yates ones are well worth the ~$20 pricetag. Raw materials are $2.5 for a buckle, 2-3 of webbing, and $3 for their rap ring end. But the fully integrated unit is worth it compared to the mess you'll get knotting up your own.
Russ also makes adjustable dasies, and for less. He has a rather large girth hitching loop (~10") that I personally do not like.
I prefer a very short girth hitch loop, and resewed both of mine when the webbing got frayed. I went with very short 4" of loop, and 2" of tack. Yates' loop is pretty darn short, but could stand to be an inch shorter. With mine I can cinch up plenty short enough to never need a fifi hook. When I had the original Fish sewn loops the fifi was mandatory. I hate fifi's.
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jeremy11
May 20, 2008, 9:48 PM
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Russ, can you do custom adjustable daisies with the girth hitch loop and clip in loop as short as humanly possible?
Or even a pair like your super long normal daisy where you girth hitch a loop in the middle to your harness, and then have an adj at either end?
and is there an increase in price for such custom work?
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russwalling
May 21, 2008, 4:01 AM
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jeremy11 wrote: Russ, can you do custom adjustable daisies with the girth hitch loop and clip in loop as short as humanly possible? Or even a pair like your super long normal daisy where you girth hitch a loop in the middle to your harness, and then have an adj at either end? and is there an increase in price for such custom work?
Anything is possible. The tiny loop is easy. I can make it so tight that even a toy biner wont go through.... You need to be very specific on what you want. I deal in inches and absolutes. Email me direct and we can get something going. Little things like loop size etc are the same price as the regular item. Oddball or elaborate stuff will of course cost more, but usually not very much.
russ@fishproducts.com
(This post was edited by russwalling on May 21, 2008, 4:02 AM)
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Roasta
May 21, 2008, 4:14 AM
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In reply to: Purcells would suck for aid compared to adjustable daisies. You can only adjust a purcell from its full length down to half its length (which isn't short enough).
If you clip a biner into your harness and then onto the fully shortened purcell; onto the shelf... then use it in reverse - it becomes kind of infinitely adjustable.
I'll take a pic if it doesn't make sense.
Agreed, the purcell probably wouldn't be the best anyway for aid stuff.
(This post was edited by Roasta on May 21, 2008, 2:34 PM)
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