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RockStrong
May 22, 2008, 6:45 PM
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Okay so i have realized that i have hit a wall so to speak. I have narrowed down my weaknesses as a climber to one thing...my crimp strength. i know that my crimp strength isn't bad but its not nearly as strong as i want it to be. I have tried everything from campus board(can do 1-4-7 on smalls (22cm spaced)) to Captains of Crush(can rep #2 twice), and have seen no improvement in the last few months.
I have searched this topic and it has yielded no answers for the stronger climber...
I climb twice a week and train about twice a week as well
thanks and im open to all suggestions.
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bustloose
May 22, 2008, 7:45 PM
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crimp more.
campus boards have virtually no bearing on crimp strength. they build open hand and finger strength, and pure power.
want to improve your crimp strength, climb on crimpy problems.
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ctboulder
May 22, 2008, 7:53 PM
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Couple things to help:
Don't use your thumb or let your knuckles "flatten out" (this relies more on the pulleys in your finger and less on the strength of your tendons and muscles) when crimping. The pulleys in your finger are what keep the tendon attached to the joints. The open grip will help to increase the actual strength in your fingers. Though you should notice that you cannot crimp as strong for a little while, it will eventually pull you past your current level.
Largely the best thing is to give it time without trying to get to that next level too quickly. It can take months-years to develop your tendons instead of rushing into an injury and ending up further back.
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redpoint73
May 22, 2008, 8:02 PM
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Crimp strength takes a long time to develop, maybe longer than any other type.
But don't rush it. Obviously training on crimps is the fastest way to increase crimp strength. But over-training on crimps is also the fastest way to blow your pulley tendons. Training open-palm strength also increases crimp strength, and is fair less likely to cause injury. Training on a variety of holds is also a smart way to train.
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dreday3000
May 22, 2008, 8:20 PM
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I'm going to have to call bull shit on this idea.
I've been climbing for 8 years now. I am reasonable at crimping but it is defiantly my weakness. I pretty much exclusively crimp open hand which is better for you but you don't get the same returns or angle. When you really need to bear down? you gotta do the full crimp.
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monkeychild
May 22, 2008, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: Okay so i have realized that i have hit a wall so to speak. I have narrowed down my weaknesses as a climber to one thing...my crimp strength. i know that my crimp strength isn't bad but its not nearly as strong as i want it to be. I have tried everything from campus board(can do 1-4-7 on smalls (22cm spaced)) to Captains of Crush(can rep #2 twice), and have seen no improvement in the last few months.
You say you've narrowed down your weakensses.... I could be totally off, but is it possible that there's an underlying weakness that, if improved, would make crimping easier? Maybe something having to do with body position, body tension, or generall technique.
That said, you could just fix the problem by getting super strong.
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mountainwonk
May 23, 2008, 6:14 PM
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Coming off six-months of rehab for a pulley rupture, I'm cringing at the thought of pushing it too hard, too fast on that crimp thing. Patience is my best advice...keep climbing crimpy stuff but keep in mind how damn long one of these things can take to heal. Strength comes with time.
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joswald
Jun 6, 2008, 12:10 PM
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Or just crimp on a campus board?
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joswald
Jun 6, 2008, 12:13 PM
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"Training open-palm strength also increases crimp strength"
THat's arguable some say it is and some say it isn't.
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alice
Jun 6, 2008, 1:36 PM
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Ok, so let me speak from the view point of someone who has killed on crimps since the start of their climbing career. For me I very rarely train on crimps but when I get back to them it only takes a couple practices and I'm back on top. Which makes me think that crimps might be one of those born abilities.
I agree with all the training advice but if you've tried it and find it doesn't work then my thoughts are that this is just part of you.
I mean short people who can't reach far holds just learn to dyno. I can`t do a one arm pull up but I can get my foot up to my head so half the time I don`t need to.
Not all weaknesses can be trained through. Sometimes you have to compensate.
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morlebeke
Jun 6, 2008, 6:28 PM
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I'll speak from the opposite side, when I started climbing seriously 2 years ago my crimp strength absolutely sucked. There were some 5.9 gym routes that I couldn't get my feet off the rubber. If I could get my first finger knuckle over an incut edge I was fine, less than that I was sunk. what I did:
1) compensate for the mean time, I wouldn't grab a crimp straight on but rather from an angle. This might leave only 2 fingers on instead of 3, but my knuckle would be on. I had to be creative to perform better.
2) training, I've been doing this for about a year, 1 day per week. 8 sets pullups timed, not counting reps. 20 seconds on, 10 seconds rest, repeat. I can't keep up this pace so the last 4 sets I do bent arm hangs and try to vary the angle set to set. then 2 minutes rest and 8 sets cable rows, same thing 20 seconds on 10 seconds off. then 2 more minutes rest and 8 sets wrist curls 20 seconds on 10 seconds off. I only do 4 reps, seated with a straight barbell, forearms on my thighs palms up. I roll the bar down to my absolute finger tips, hold, and roll back up. 15 total minutes on my lunch hour and done, but I have a killer pump. I do enough weight and push myself enough that my whole face will be tingling by the end.
then, once a week at the gym wall, often times I'll do this the same day as above, I work easier routes or traverse, but hold each hold with an open crimp even if it's a full hand jug. just trying to change my habits from a full crimp to using an open crimp whenever possible. I do this for joint health as much as anything. I also try twice a week to put a stiff rubber band over my fingernails and thumb nail and do 2 sets of 12 trying to expand my hand as far as possible and hold for a couple seconds each rep. I know from a couple decades of lifting weights that you need to train opposing muscle groups or you get unbalanced and injuries start cropping up out of the blue. So these are extensor workouts.
I'm not crimping my way up 12's by any stretch, but I've noticed the improvement. it's slow, but it's there.
In the mean time, while your strength is improving, keep working on body position as being creative there can lessen the crimp strength you need for a move. You'll need those skills as much or more than crimp strength to gain levels in ability.
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jt512
Jun 6, 2008, 7:19 PM
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morlebeke wrote: I'll speak from the opposite side, when I started climbing seriously 2 years ago my crimp strength absolutely sucked. There were some 5.9 gym routes that I couldn't get my feet off the rubber. If I could get my first finger knuckle over an incut edge I was fine, less than that I was sunk. what I did: 1) compensate for the mean time, I wouldn't grab a crimp straight on but rather from an angle. This might leave only 2 fingers on instead of 3, but my knuckle would be on. I had to be creative to perform better. 2) training, I've been doing this for about a year, 1 day per week. 8 sets pullups timed, not counting reps. 20 seconds on, 10 seconds rest, repeat. I can't keep up this pace so the last 4 sets I do bent arm hangs and try to vary the angle set to set. then 2 minutes rest and 8 sets cable rows, same thing 20 seconds on 10 seconds off. then 2 more minutes rest and 8 sets wrist curls 20 seconds on 10 seconds off. I only do 4 reps, seated with a straight barbell, forearms on my thighs palms up. I roll the bar down to my absolute finger tips, hold, and roll back up. 15 total minutes on my lunch hour and done, but I have a killer pump. I do enough weight and push myself enough that my whole face will be tingling by the end. then, once a week at the gym wall, often times I'll do this the same day as above, I work easier routes or traverse, but hold each hold with an open crimp even if it's a full hand jug. just trying to change my habits from a full crimp to using an open crimp whenever possible. I do this for joint health as much as anything. I also try twice a week to put a stiff rubber band over my fingernails and thumb nail and do 2 sets of 12 trying to expand my hand as far as possible and hold for a couple seconds each rep. I know from a couple decades of lifting weights that you need to train opposing muscle groups or you get unbalanced and injuries start cropping up out of the blue. So these are extensor workouts. I'm not crimping my way up 12's by any stretch, but I've noticed the improvement. it's slow, but it's there. In the mean time, while your strength is improving, keep working on body position as being creative there can lessen the crimp strength you need for a move. You'll need those skills as much or more than crimp strength to gain levels in ability.
I hate to tell you, but your training regimen is practically worthless for crimp training: the fact that you're not close to climbing 5.12 crimp routes after of year of trying to specifically train for crimps demonstrates this. Pullups and wrist curls have essentially nothing to do with crimp strength. The finger rolls seem logical, but it is a well-established fact in exercise physiology that isotonic strength training does not translate well to isometric strength, and crimping is primarily isometric. Traversing won't help crimp strength much because the workload on your fingers is probably not high enough; and attempting any strength training on routes that are easy for you is an obvious contradiction. Basically, you're doing all the wrong things.
If you want to improve your crimp strength, I recommend two things. The first is sets of timed dead hangs on a finger board or campus board. When you can do sets of 15-sec hangs, add weight or use smaller holds. The second is simply seeking out crimpy routes or boulder problems at your limit. As your crimp strength improves, do harder routes/problems. I think you'll find that your crimp strength will improve more in a month of doing this regime than it did in a year of what you have been doing.
Finally, keep in mind that what you may perceive as a lack of strength may actually be poor use of balance and movement in disguise. For more on that read The Self-Coached Climber.
Jay
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morlebeke
Jun 6, 2008, 7:55 PM
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thanks for the input, jay
I'm aware of the whole 'can't train for climbing specifics' bit, which is why on the finger / wrist curls I do only 4 reps, which is really 4 5-second "hangs" with a contraction in between.
my intent on the traverses is that not all the holds on the walls are crimps, so I try to grab each hold at the limit of my crimp strength, only using juuuust enough of the hold to stay on. play it like a game really, how little of the hold can I use?
I read a friend's copy of self coached climber about a month ago and am starting to incorporate some of the techniques advocated in there as well. I'll probably buy my own copy late fall when the weather up here starts keeping me inside more.
I think the training has helped my endurance as much or maybe more than the overall strength too. I know crimp strength is not the only thing keeping me from climbing 5.12 though. flexibility has been my weakest point athletically my entire life for instance.
I've tried doing hangs on a hangboard, but i don't have one and the gym one is on a 6 inch overhang so you scrape up your whole front side trying to use it. could be something to revisit I'm sure.
I have no idea how much I was supposed to improve over the past year, all I know is I can see obvious marked improvement in my grip strength, and the progress has been slow but steady. figured I'd throw out there something that has worked to at least some degree for myself.
I know from my history I don't gain strength fast, quite slow compared to others in gyms I've been to in my life, so I wasn't expecting popeye forearms and vice grips for digits. I've tried to balance gains w/ injury potential since when I started climbing I had a couple pulley injuries early. I'm too old to want to risk months on sidelines. ;-)
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