I didn't add you. I would like to pretend that you don't exist, but then I couldn't be friends with becs.

To use it at RR it needs to have the extra part added to the NPS pass. I think it was $15 more and it was called the golden eagle pass a few years ago.

If you have the time you can usually figure out ways to work the system. I spent two weeks climbing at RR and only paid $5 for getting in to climb and camping combined.

Devils Tower used to seem expensive until I met Frank and started staying at his place for cheep or in exchange for doing a little work. The Tower is in walking distance too so you don't need to drive.

Hueco it is $40 or something for a annual pass and if you do work for Rob you can stay there for free I think.

The SD Needles or the Cali Needles? In SD part of them are free. Only the stuff in Custer STPK you need to pay. But that is anything along the Needles Hwy., Sylavan Lake, and the Cathedral Spires. There is free camping on FS land.

Finding places where you can walk from camp to crag will save you a ton of money on gas.

Being from out east I think spending time at the Gunks would be a little stupid if that will be weekend tripable in the future for you. But as an example you could still climb there and have it be economical. The pass is expensive at first, but once you are there you can park your car and camp for free.

Paying for camping and climbing while driving to the crag everyday will kill your budget. But one of them is very workable.

The combined all that stuff into one pass in 04 or 06...I know what you're talking about (I think). The new system is meant to be comprehensive and cover everything.

How much is it to climb at Devil's Tower? I know you've mentioned Frank before, he's sort of the local guy there, correct?

I'm probably going to try to spend a minimum of two weeks at each place I visit to make the travel worth it. I was planning for extra time in Yosemite, but who knows. Getting a truck is going to be part of the crux of it; it will be easy to just sleep in the back, but if I have to pitch a tent all the time, I'm thinking that will bring in more fees. Except for in a place like the valley where sleeping in your vehicle is "not allowed." I need an even trade for my car, though, as I don't want getting a new vehicle chipping away at my trip savings. And the car mileage is better, undoubtedly. What would you do?

I hope I can figure things out in terms of "working the system",.. with gas being what it is and all. Finding folks to share sites with, etc. It probably becomes clearer once you are out there as to how things work, I guess.

I'm not planning on climbing at the Gunks, I was just using that as an example. Aside from park fees, I'm suprised at all the places that charge you to climb. I guess Eldo is one as well, according to doc.

This will be an interesting trip at any rate. When I was in Europe I made it 3 months for relatively cheap, we'll see what happens here.

The combined all that stuff into one pass in 04 or 06...I know what you're talking about (I think). The new system is meant to be comprehensive and cover everything.

How much is it to climb at Devil's Tower? I know you've mentioned Frank before, he's sort of the local guy there, correct?

I'm probably going to try to spend a minimum of two weeks at each place I visit to make the travel worth it. I was planning for extra time in Yosemite, but who knows. Getting a truck is going to be part of the crux of it; it will be easy to just sleep in the back, but if I have to pitch a tent all the time, I'm thinking that will bring in more fees. Except for in a place like the valley where sleeping in your vehicle is "not allowed." I need an even trade for my car, though, as I don't want getting a new vehicle chipping away at my trip savings. And the car mileage is better, undoubtedly. What would you do?

I hope I can figure things out in terms of "working the system",.. with gas being what it is and all. Finding folks to share sites with, etc. It probably becomes clearer once you are out there as to how things work, I guess.

I'm not planning on climbing at the Gunks, I was just using that as an example. Aside from park fees, I'm suprised at all the places that charge you to climb. I guess Eldo is one as well, according to doc.

This will be an interesting trip at any rate. When I was in Europe I made it 3 months for relatively cheap, we'll see what happens here.

The combined all that stuff into one pass in 04 or 06...I know what you're talking about (I think). The new system is meant to be comprehensive and cover everything.

How much is it to climb at Devil's Tower? I know you've mentioned Frank before, he's sort of the local guy there, correct?

I'm probably going to try to spend a minimum of two weeks at each place I visit to make the travel worth it. I was planning for extra time in Yosemite, but who knows. Getting a truck is going to be part of the crux of it; it will be easy to just sleep in the back, but if I have to pitch a tent all the time, I'm thinking that will bring in more fees. Except for in a place like the valley where sleeping in your vehicle is "not allowed." I need an even trade for my car, though, as I don't want getting a new vehicle chipping away at my trip savings. And the car mileage is better, undoubtedly. What would you do?

I hope I can figure things out in terms of "working the system",.. with gas being what it is and all. Finding folks to share sites with, etc. It probably becomes clearer once you are out there as to how things work, I guess.

I'm not planning on climbing at the Gunks, I was just using that as an example. Aside from park fees, I'm suprised at all the places that charge you to climb. I guess Eldo is one as well, according to doc.

This will be an interesting trip at any rate. When I was in Europe I made it 3 months for relatively cheap, we'll see what happens here.

I'd also assume you'll be staying for more than 2 weeks at place that are good. Its easy to spend 3 - 4 weeks at a place if things are going well.

Being flexible is key.

Are you planning on going to Cochise Stronghold? I think you can camp and climb for free there. And there is everything from bouldering to multi pitched routes on granite. The guidebook is tough to get you hands on though.

This chance of rain shit needs to find a new existance away from CT

Its going to be sunny and warm here all weekend. Aren't you heading somewhere else for the long weekend anyway? Get the hell away from CT

Well It is going to be beautiful all weekend here too. But today it is chance of rain, and we decided to stay local as opposed to going to the gunks today due to that fact.
Not sure what is on for this weekend, since i have to get a physical for work on friday. We would have left already had that not been the case.

What work? Who in their right mind would hire you?

I got hired at a whambulance company.

Ohh I thought you couldn't until you finished school. I hope they are not going to let you drive!!!

Not sure what is on for this weekend, since i have to get a physical for work on friday. We would have left already had that not been the case.

Being flexible is key. And if you have a small tent of or truck, finding a flexible girl is also key.

So my partner and I are going to do a grade III this weekend at cannon. Ought to be fun.

What about Cathedral? I'll be up there tomorrow.

And if you are stoked about a grade III, you need to get out more. Grade III ought to take 2-3 hours. Leaves time for moar climbing.

I was going to ask if EC grade III was equal to WC Grade IV.

The way his statement read it sounded as if they were doing a grade V

Yeah Eldo is $5 a day and there is no camping within a bit. Definately no free camping.

Devils Tower is totally worth it. The entrance is included in the old Golden Eagle pass. To camp in the park its something like $10/day, but you could check out Frank's place.

I would think if you could get an even trade on your car a small truck would be worth it. You might still want to set up a tent for more living space in areas its easy to do, but its hard to do overnight parking in at car.

A place like Red Rocks its not bad to find places to do overnight parking on some of the back roads, but its nice to be in the campground to find partners. Both Nathan and I have found it easy to share camping with people who don't mind covering your half when you're on a road trip. I think he's paid nothing when he was there for longer, I only spent maybe $20 for over 3 weeks.

You should plan on a minimum of 2 weeks per location, but be flexible to move if things start to suck. I'd also assume you'll be staying for more than 2 weeks at place that are good. Its easy to spend 3 - 4 weeks at a place if things are going well.

Being flexible is key.

Yeah, I guess he does say "this weekend".

Their new system seems counter intuitive to their current plan of trying to charge extra fees for everything. I suppose it is a way of hiking the price the average person pays, making people pay for stuff they will never use.



DT is free once you sneak in after the gatehouse closes. Camping is the expensive part. I forget what they charge you at the park campground. The KOA outside the park is way more expensive. Frank is generally cool with climbers setting up a tent on his property and doesn't charge per say. He does ask for whatever you would like to donate. He has a outdoor bathroom with a shower you can use. Only the shower is outside, the rest is kinda like an outhouse, but with a flush toilet and sink. Depending on how busy it is there you may be able to use some of the other stuff around his place.

When I have paid him for staying I normally give him what the Park CG charges. But he has always fed me and let me have run of the common areas of the house.




Something you can sleep in is nice, but unless you can get an even trade it probably wouldn't be worth it. If you do get a truck you will need to get it set up for sleeping in. Build a platform and get good shades for the windows so if you are parked in a parking lot people won't see you sleeping in there. In a pinch I have slept a lot of places I wasn't allowed to in the back of my truck.

I have traveled both in a car and truck. My longest trip was actually out of a car. The nicest part about a truck is when driving someplace you can stop almost anywhere and sleep. It is more of a convenience than a necessity. There aren't that many times that I have been at a climbing area where I bivied in my truck that I couldn't have set up a tent. It does make it easier to dodge campground fees though. That works best if you have two people since you can have the self register stuff all filled out and then each person can blame the other for not depositing the envelope after arriving late, if you get caught before you can roll out in the morning. Even if nobody comes around asking why you haven't paid I wouldn't suggest doing that more than once per campground. I think Bec has done similar at RR and JT with a car. Like I said before, you just need to learn how to work the system.

Honestly, I haven't hit many of the "classic" areas because they cost so much money. Not to mention they are generally over crowded. I tend to favor places on Forest Service land with free camping and no entrance fees. Even a lot of those places are becoming pay for play.

Are you planning on going to Cochise Stronghold? I think you can camp and climb for free there. And there is everything from bouldering to multi pitched routes on granite. The guidebook is tough to get you hands on though.