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snoopy138
Jun 3, 2008, 5:47 AM
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norcalocal wrote: I only placed cams on the route, so it would have been incredibly hard to misplace some of the pro. But I am not incredibly experienced at placing pro
yes, we gathered that.
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snoopy138
Jun 3, 2008, 5:47 AM
Post #27 of 65
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snoopy138 wrote: norcalocal wrote: I only placed cams on the route, so it would have been incredibly hard to misplace some of the pro. But I am not incredibly experienced at placing pro yes, we gathered that.
whoo!
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rtwilli4
Jun 3, 2008, 7:11 AM
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In reply to: None of the the pro came out. I was just not paying enough attention to the amount of rope that was being run out while I was cleaning gear. I only placed cams on the route, so it would have been incredibly hard to misplace some of the pro. But I am not incredibly experienced at placing pro, since it was only my third lead trad climb, and I have had NO instruction on "proper placement", but I understand physics and how to operate camming devices. That being said, I more then adequately protected myself on the way up, it was on the way down that I got sloppy. I do believe that the being intoxicated did relax my body upon impact. oh and in response to not telling anyone about this, isn't this the "injuries and accidents" section of a forum for climbing.
First off, I am not one to lecture one about safety. Some of my best climbing partners are usually blazed at the crag (I trust them).... I rarely where a helmet... etc.
Having said that... you need to go over this in your head a few times and ask yourself if your really ready to be leading trad. climbs. Drunk or not, you need to take what your doing seriously... get some instruction from someone, please.
As for the drunk issue, I think your an idiot for climbing drunk and an idiot for posting/bragging about it here. As was said before, this kind of behavior does reflect badly on all of us... call me gramps if you want but it does.
Please grow up a little so we don't end up reading about you dying on this forum.
Glad your OK.
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stymingersfink
Jun 3, 2008, 1:22 PM
Post #29 of 65
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angry wrote: I don't buy this drinking = bad rigging BS. Like camhead said, if you can't do it drunk then you can't do it sober.
Anchors are not complicated, you can rig one mostly blind, with frozen hands, with the wrong gear, after being on route for 36 hours straight. The problem is in experience, not alcohol.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Jun 3, 2008, 1:25 PM)
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blonde_loves_bolts
Jun 3, 2008, 9:14 PM
Post #30 of 65
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rtwilli4 wrote: In reply to: None of the the pro came out. I was just not paying enough attention to the amount of rope that was being run out while I was cleaning gear. I only placed cams on the route, so it would have been incredibly hard to misplace some of the pro. But I am not incredibly experienced at placing pro, since it was only my third lead trad climb, and I have had NO instruction on "proper placement", but I understand physics and how to operate camming devices. That being said, I more then adequately protected myself on the way up, it was on the way down that I got sloppy. I do believe that the being intoxicated did relax my body upon impact. oh and in response to not telling anyone about this, isn't this the "injuries and accidents" section of a forum for climbing. First off, I am not one to lecture one about safety. Some of my best climbing partners are usually blazed at the crag (I trust them).... I rarely where a helmet... etc. Having said that... you need to go over this in your head a few times and ask yourself if your really ready to be leading trad. climbs. Drunk or not, you need to take what your doing seriously... get some instruction from someone, please. As for the drunk issue, I think your an idiot for climbing drunk and an idiot for posting/bragging about it here. As was said before, this kind of behavior does reflect badly on all of us... call me gramps if you want but it does. Please grow up a little so we don't end up reading about you dying on this forum. Glad your OK.
Call me old fashioned, but I've been around too many accidents in my life - some freak, some mind-bogglingly avoidable - to make any room for the drunk and the stoned (while climbing) on my list of climbing partners, regardless of experience. Given the seeming overabundance of both, this is probably why I don't head outdoors that much.
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onceahardman
Jun 3, 2008, 10:01 PM
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In reply to: Uh jeeze, lighten up there gramps. The community lecture is best saved for the softball leagues
With all due respect, dingus...bullcrap.
The crag where I did my first 5.11 lead, 25 years ago, has been closed for 10 years, because the poor behavior of a few reflected on the entire community. Perhaps you have not experienced the loss of a great local cliff. I have.
Like it or not, crazy, drunk, falling-down climbers are lumped in to the same group as safe, experienced ones, in the public image.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no angel, and have been falling-down drunk more times than i'd care to admit...but not while climbing.
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joeforte
Jun 3, 2008, 10:16 PM
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: Uh jeeze, lighten up there gramps. The community lecture is best saved for the softball leagues With all due respect, dingus...bullcrap. The crag where I did my first 5.11 lead, 25 years ago, has been closed for 10 years, because the poor behavior of a few reflected on the entire community. Perhaps you have not experienced the loss of a great local cliff. I have. Like it or not, crazy, drunk, falling-down climbers are lumped in to the same group as safe, experienced ones, in the public image. Don't get me wrong, I'm no angel, and have been falling-down drunk more times than i'd care to admit...but not while climbing.
AMEN
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angry
Jun 3, 2008, 10:59 PM
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You make an excellent point.
I have spent the majority of this thread calling the OP a n00b because he fucked up something that shouldn't have been fucked up sober or not. In no way was I ever saying that climbing with a few in you is a good idea.
I can see it bouldering, and definitely after a climb. Aside from that, it doesn't have a place with me.
It sort of contradicts myself in saying that the OP should be able to climb and rig safely while drunk and that he should never climb or rig while drunk. That is however, exactly what I'm saying.
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stymingersfink
Jun 3, 2008, 11:15 PM
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angry wrote: You make an excellent point. I have spent the majority of this thread calling the OP a n00b because he fucked up something that shouldn't have been fucked up sober or not. In no way was I ever saying that climbing with a few in you is a good idea. I can see it bouldering, and definitely after a climb. Aside from that, it doesn't have a place with me. It sort of contradicts myself in saying that the OP should be able to climb and rig safely while drunk and that he should never climb or rig while drunk. That is however, exactly what I'm saying.
The exact location of that line differs between climbers however, and it's not always a good idea to find it through experience.
I shure have climbed a shit-load of pitches with the aid of mary-jane, however. Sure, might take a little longer for a few tasks, but un-safe it ain't (for me).
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onceahardman
Jun 3, 2008, 11:29 PM
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In reply to: I have spent the majority of this thread calling the OP a n00b because he fucked up something that shouldn't have been fucked up sober or not.
Maybe I read it wrong, but I don't think the problem was incompetent anchor strength, but rather, poor judgement. Either the anchor location was wrong, or the guy climbed in the wrong place, or his belayer didn't pay attention to increasing slack as he climbed and pulled gear. The anchor did not collapse.
Pilot error, not failure of airplane.
Otherwise, I agree. It just isn't that hard, motor-skill wise, to build a competent anchor. At least once you are experienced in building them.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Jun 3, 2008, 11:31 PM)
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stymingersfink
Jun 3, 2008, 11:37 PM
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: I shure have climbed a shit-load of pitches with the aid of mary-jane, however. Sure, might take a little longer for a few tasks, but un-safe it ain't (for me). That is exactly my experience as well. Although those days are pretty much over since the kids got here  One beer had a worse effect on my climbing than a moderate amount of the finest nugs.
yes, both those are key in that equation.
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stymingersfink
Jun 3, 2008, 11:38 PM
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: I have spent the majority of this thread calling the OP a n00b because he fucked up something that shouldn't have been fucked up sober or not. Maybe I read it wrong, but I don't think the problem was incompetent anchor strength, but rather, poor judgement. Either the anchor location was wrong, or the guy climbed in the wrong place, or his belayer didn't pay attention to increasing slack as he climbed and pulled gear. The anchor did not collapse. Pilot error, not failure of airplane. Otherwise, I agree. It just isn't that hard, motor-skill wise, to build a competent anchor. At least once you are experienced in building them.
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dingus
Jun 3, 2008, 11:58 PM
Post #39 of 65
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Sorry I don't buy the We are Borg routine.
A local crag round here had access threatened by young drunk men with guns. They weren't climbers, they were trash and NRA members. Driving their atvs all over the place and shooting up the world; leaving their beer cans where ever they pleased.
Climbers are saints by comparison. I've never had a local crag access threatened by drunk climbers - not once in 30+ years.
We are not borg. We will not assimilate.
DMT
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norcalocal
Jun 4, 2008, 2:03 AM
Post #40 of 65
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Ok, now I feel like I should defend myself. This is a "Injuries & ACCIDENTS" forum. I had an accident. I thought I would post it here to emphasize the importance of not drinking and climbing because it DOES impair ones judgment. I never said that what I did was a good idea, it was not. I made a mistake. I had an ACCIDENT that resulted in INJURY....which fortunately for myself is turning out to be much less of an injury then I first estimated. I can already walk fine, and can almost hold all of my weight on my heels again. Just as a side note, if I was only 2 feet higher and took the same fall I would have not hit the ground. The two most important lessons I learned are: 1. Don't drink and climb. and 2. Never post an accident on rockclimbing.com :)
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curt
Jun 4, 2008, 5:00 AM
Post #42 of 65
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unabonger wrote: norcalocal wrote: I hit the ground and then I felt the rope pull. You just made my Monday morning.
Belayer must have been drunk as well.
Curt
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austin.timm
Jun 4, 2008, 5:48 AM
Post #43 of 65
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angry wrote: I don't buy this drinking = bad rigging BS. Like camhead said, if you can't do it drunk then you can't do it sober. Anchors are not complicated, you can rig one mostly blind, with frozen hands, with the wrong gear, after being on route for 36 hours straight. The problem is in experience, not alcohol.
Yeah, I've definitely rigged back to back rappels - with haul bags - after having some 'sodas' and I am still here to tell about it with no scrapes or bruises...
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spikeddem
Jun 4, 2008, 8:03 AM
Post #44 of 65
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norcalocal wrote: Ok, now I feel like I should defend myself. This is a "Injuries & ACCIDENTS" forum. I had an accident. I thought I would post it here to emphasize the importance of not drinking and climbing because it DOES impair ones judgment. I never said that what I did was a good idea, it was not. I made a mistake. I had an ACCIDENT that resulted in INJURY....which fortunately for myself is turning out to be much less of an injury then I first estimated. I can already walk fine, and can almost hold all of my weight on my heels again. Just as a side note, if I was only 2 feet higher and took the same fall I would have not hit the ground. The two most important lessons I learned are: 1. Don't drink and climb. and 2. Never post an accident on rockclimbing.com :)
No offense, but I really wouldn't call drinking, going rock climbing, and then getting into trouble an "accident." Lots of purposeful things happened here. Maybe you're just thinking incident and I'm thinking accident, and we're just arguing semantics. Boy, wouldn't that be a huge waste of time? (**cough "definition of a dyno" thread cough**)
The other thing is that you have no explained your level of intoxication. I propose the following levels are possible:
1) Oh man, I'm slightly buzzed. I gotta be so super insanely careful so I don't mess ANYTHING up. Four bomber placements with two lockers on everything!!!
2) Hmmmm, the #4 camalot doesn't fit. Oh, wait, that's backwards.
3) Hmmmm, the #4 camalot doesn't fit. Oh, wait, that's a #11 hex.
4) Anchors?! Only useful if I fall!
Seems to me you were a 1.43
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wonderwoman
Jun 4, 2008, 3:13 PM
Post #45 of 65
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norcalocal wrote: Ok, now I feel like I should defend myself. This is a "Injuries & ACCIDENTS" forum. I had an accident. I thought I would post it here to emphasize the importance of not drinking and climbing because it DOES impair ones judgment. I never said that what I did was a good idea, it was not. I made a mistake. I had an ACCIDENT that resulted in INJURY....which fortunately for myself is turning out to be much less of an injury then I first estimated. I can already walk fine, and can almost hold all of my weight on my heels again. Just as a side note, if I was only 2 feet higher and took the same fall I would have not hit the ground. The two most important lessons I learned are: 1. Don't drink and climb. and 2. Never post an accident on rockclimbing.com :)
Well... at least you weren't driving drunk, I suppose!
Unless you got in your car right after the incident. And if you did, please be smart enough not to tell us unless you want even less sympathy.
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reg
Jun 4, 2008, 3:33 PM
Post #46 of 65
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norcalocal wrote: .....I have had NO instruction on "proper placement"....... I more then adequately protected myself
i really don't want to rub salt into your wounds but taken out of context or not i find the above - amazing.
sure your mistake, now realized, was a rope thing and not a pro thing. IMHO - there are sulalties of gear placement, rope management and anchor building that should be studied and learned on the ground or with thoses who have expeirence no matter how smart or gifted you think you are.
edit - i can't spell nuttin! wait - n u t t i n - right?
(This post was edited by reg on Jun 4, 2008, 3:36 PM)
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majid_sabet
Jun 4, 2008, 4:14 PM
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(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 6, 2008, 9:25 PM)
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tigerlilly
Jun 4, 2008, 5:09 PM
Post #48 of 65
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norcalocal wrote: Ok, now I feel like I should defend myself. This is a "Injuries & ACCIDENTS" forum. I had an accident. I thought I would post it here to emphasize the importance of not drinking and climbing because it DOES impair ones judgment. I never said that what I did was a good idea, it was not. I made a mistake. I had an ACCIDENT that resulted in INJURY....which fortunately for myself is turning out to be much less of an injury then I first estimated. I can already walk fine, and can almost hold all of my weight on my heels again. Just as a side note, if I was only 2 feet higher and took the same fall I would have not hit the ground. The two most important lessons I learned are: 1. Don't drink and climb. and 2. Never post an accident on rockclimbing.com :)
You forgot lesson #3, which may be the most important: Lead climbing involves a lot more than just plugging pro. You need some quality instruction, study time, and/or to work with someone experienced who can coach you. I can place pro ok, but I'm not running out to start leading because I haven't finished lesson #3.
Btw, pretty much anything you post on this forum can result in a flame-fest, regardless of how innocent it may seem. If you don't believe me, go browse the Beginner's forum, or look at almost any thread on what shoes to buy or what 1st rope to buy. Put on your flame-retardant suit before entering, and remember, you can choose not to read any post at any time.
I'm glad to hear you're recovering well. You're one lucky SOB that you got the opportunity to learn from your mistake. Be careful out there!
Kathy
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robdotcalm
Jun 5, 2008, 8:38 PM
Post #49 of 65
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norcalocal wrote: Ok, now I feel like I should defend myself. This is a "Injuries & ACCIDENTS" forum. I had an accident. I thought I would post it here to emphasize the importance of not drinking and climbing because it DOES impair ones judgment. I never said that what I did was a good idea, it was not. I made a mistake. I had an ACCIDENT that resulted in INJURY....which fortunately for myself is turning out to be much less of an injury then I first estimated. I can already walk fine, and can almost hold all of my weight on my heels again. Just as a side note, if I was only 2 feet higher and took the same fall I would have not hit the ground. The two most important lessons I learned are: 1. Don't drink and climb. and 2. Never post an accident on rockclimbing.com :)
Actually, this is the "Add Insult to Injury Forum". Just read thru any random sampling of posts to verify that. Rather standard for the web. Anyway, glad you're getting better.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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Tree_wrangler
Jun 6, 2008, 12:26 AM
Post #50 of 65
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In reply to: My thought on the matter is that many times we are totally in sober in situations that impair us far more than being drunk would.
Word.
People get tired, people get low blood sugar, they get pissed off about stupid stuff and go introvert. They lose connection with the physical world over all sorts of trivial little details.
But the only question ever asked is, "Was he/she sober?"
If you were, even if you were lost in your own narcissistic thoughts, you're free of responsibility.
If you had a touch of an intoxicant in you, even if you were otherwise unfettered by other complications, the assumption is automatically that you were seriously impaired.
I'll take my chances with the intoxicated, rather than the religiously-sober any day. At least the intoxicated are honest about their potential impairments.
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