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Dodgy_Lurker
Jun 10, 2008, 4:34 AM
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1) I'm not a troll
2) I've searched, but all threads related to insta-death of marking nylon rope, not dyneema quick draws.
3) Yes yes, there's levels of 'dangerous', but I want to know if marker pen on dyneema is just a little dumb, or 'way-out-the-park dumb'
So, there's a question around here somewhere. I've gone and marked my new dyneema quickdraws with a sharpie marker and now all paranoid about cratering.
Is this justified? I have a friend who has marked up his Nylon draws too, so he is now worried too. Do we go out and get more dog bones and withhold our desire to mark them?
Thanks!
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sky7high
Jun 10, 2008, 7:16 AM
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I don't think it is unsafe.
According to the sharpie MSDS (http://www.sharpie.com/...piSl/SharpieFine.pdf), the pen contains propanol, butanol, and diacetone alcohol, and according to http://pt.rexnord.com/...emresistpdf01feb.pdf, high-density polyethylene (dyneema is ultra-high-density polyethylene) is not damaged by butanol or diacetone alcohol. There is no info about propanol, but given that it's similar to butanol I'd say it's ok as well.
Of course this just concerns the solvents used, and not the dyes, but I wouldn't expect them to be too much of a problem. Maybe I'm wrong.
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swaghole
Jun 10, 2008, 11:30 AM
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Personally, I wouldn't use a sharpie or other chemical marker or dye unless the manufacturer says "You can mark your gear safely with this XXX product". Same goes with tape.
Some slings come with a tag (where they put the rating info etc...) - you could always put a mark on the tag and hope it doesn't get torn off in use.
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dta95b7r
Jun 10, 2008, 1:28 PM
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Why not just tape the sling?
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getout87
Jun 10, 2008, 1:46 PM
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Or, if its a draw like the OP stated, why not just tape the biners? Or are we talking about slings and I'm just out of the loop?
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swaghole
Jun 10, 2008, 2:01 PM
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dta95b7r wrote: Why not just tape the sling?
Tape your biners and othe metail gear, not your soft gear.
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jp_sucks
Jun 10, 2008, 2:06 PM
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I recall years ago while doing my ACMG rock guide exam that the examiner stated that they'd done numerous tests on sharpie markers and they were absolutely identical to the much more expensive "rope marking pens" that bluewater sold at the time. They were fully confident that a Sharpie brand marker was 100% safe to use on ropes and webbing.
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cracklover
Jun 10, 2008, 2:10 PM
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Well, I can tell you that it's not insta-death, as most of my slings are marked this way. BTW, I marked them on the section that is stitched together. This means that if it does weaken the material, it's weakening the strongest part, and so if the weakening is relatively small, then it will not actually lower the breaking point of the sling as a whole.
Also, it's easier to mark there, as the nylon bar tacks take the marker much better than the mostly dyneema material in the rest of the sling.
GO
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catbird_seat
Jun 10, 2008, 5:45 PM
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I just use electrical tape over the bar tacked overlap. The sling is stiff enough that it stays on pretty well.
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Dodgy_Lurker
Jun 12, 2008, 7:06 PM
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[sky7high] - good research there! So it appears (according to the internets) that although not a great idea, writing on my dyneema QDs was not a terminal mistake.
Can the same be said of my friend with the marker-penned nylon QDs? or should I buy a mop?
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grubbjasona
Jun 12, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Dyneema webbing is always white because the material isn't capable of absorbing dye the way nylon is... So i'd suspect that a sharpie marker won't do much damage.
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hanginaround
Jun 12, 2008, 10:20 PM
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Mark the end sling that is beyond the bartacks(sewing) then its not an issue
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knudenoggin
Jun 24, 2008, 3:16 PM
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cracklover wrote: BTW, I marked them on the section that is stitched together. This means that if it does weaken the material, it's weakening the strongest part, ... Also, it's easier to mark there, as the nylon bar tacks take the marker much better than the mostly dyneema material in the rest of the sling.
1) the tacked area is not the strongest (though maybe stronger than bent);
2) the nylon tacks ARE arguably affected by the marking (whereas HMPE
is quite chemical resistant).
Do Not Pass, GO!
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cracklover
Jun 24, 2008, 3:30 PM
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Oh well, nice knowing you!
GO
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julio412
Jun 24, 2008, 3:36 PM
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I believe Duane Raliegh at R & I did tests many moons ago;no problem-could of been somebody at Climbing,can't remember.
Basically said that it was the same effectas the pens Bluewater was selling- zero.
I've been marking my slings this way since 2000.
Funny how forums will go about markers;about the safety issues,then debate helmets,
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knudenoggin
Jun 28, 2008, 3:37 AM
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Although one issue re testing pens is that they have been mused
to vary the ink formula occasionally. YMMV?
*kN*
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sky7high
Jul 12, 2008, 5:10 AM
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About the nylon + sharpie.
According tohttp://www.chem.agilent.com/...neric.ASP?lPage=6111, it resists propanol (nylon 66)
According to http://www.mossrubber.com/pdfs/Chem_Res.pdf, it resists butanol (funny thing, according to that same website, beer may be not so good for your rope; it had a rating of "good", as opposed to "excellent")
Finally, this website http://www.techniquesfluides.fr/...F-Guide%20Flojet.pdf, says that it resists diacetone alcohol, butanol, and beer, but it says that there's "minor to moderate effect (generally satisfactory, but should be qualified by testing)" with propanol
So there you have it folks, the answer to the sharpie-on-rope question. Once and for all.
(edit to say: nylon also resists chlorox bleach, chocolate syrup, sesame seed, salad dressings, urine, water, turpentine, gasoline, tomato juice, soy sauce, sewage, and many other things, although apparently not coke  )
(This post was edited by sky7high on Jul 12, 2008, 5:19 AM)
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Dodgy_Lurker
Jul 12, 2008, 4:14 PM
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[sky7high] - that's some good research you got there.
I've solved me problem though, by my friendly local gym giving me a bunch of spare (new) dog bones. So my tainted ones have been swapped out and all is well.
Although my old dog bones were so much prettier...
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