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metatarsal-over-muscle
Jun 17, 2008, 9:39 PM
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I'm looking to buy the v-twin from DMM, but read somewhere that it doesn't provide adequit fricton on thinner ropes. They said it was because the teeth are vertical in the channels therefore dosen't grab skinnier ropes well. Does anyone have experience with this belay device and might be able to compare it to other high friction devices. Any info/opinions from experience are appreciated.
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dj69
Jun 17, 2008, 9:59 PM
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Registered: Oct 18, 2006
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I've never used it myself, but i found this review on gearreviews.com : DMM V-Twin Belay Device description: DMM made the V-Twin Belay Device out of stainless steel instead of aluminum to increase durability and keep it cooler on long rappels. The deep V-shaped grooves provide solid breaking performance on ropes ranging from 8 to 10.5mm, so you can take it along whether you're using your fatty on a sport route or bringing twins on an ice line. You may expect the V-Twin Belay Device to be heavy, but thanks to DMM's investment casting manufacturing process and close tolerances, it weights a mere 3.1oz. Bottom Line: The DMM V-Twin Belay Device lasts longer and stays cooler. Climbing magazine's gear guide also mentions it: http://www.climbing.com/gearguide08/belaydevicesGG08/index5.html Hope this helps D
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jeremy11
Jun 17, 2008, 11:01 PM
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I'm also interested in how well it works, for fat, fuzzy summer camp program use how durable is the cable?
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coolcat83
Jun 19, 2008, 2:01 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: how durable is the cable? Not to hijack the thread but what is everyone doing with their damned cables? I've had the same belay device for close to 5 years now and the cable is just fine.
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jeremy11
Jun 19, 2008, 2:39 PM
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coolcat83 wrote: jeremy11 wrote: how durable is the cable? Not to hijack the thread but what is everyone doing with their damned cables? I've had the same belay device for close to 5 years now and the cable is just fine. that's exactly the point. I have an ATC and an ATC Guide with lots of use and no cable issues whatsoever. However, our camp programs have been using ABC tube style devices that are cheap and built cheap. We had a couple this spring where the cable was twisted and the plastic falling off, and it was getting stuck in the rope before the anodization wore off, so, I'm sick of replacing cheap devices due to cable wear. there may be an element of operator error involved (and we have lots of new belayers here), but mainly its whether the device just sucks or not. now back to our regularly scheduled thread.
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coolcat83
Jun 19, 2008, 2:54 PM
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All the DMM gear i have it top notch, I would think the v-twin is no differnt
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billcoe_
Jun 19, 2008, 10:06 PM
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metatarsal-over-muscle wrote: I'm looking to buy the v-twin from DMM, but read somewhere that it doesn't provide adequit fricton on thinner ropes. They said it was because the teeth are vertical in the channels therefore dosen't grab skinnier ropes well. Does anyone have experience with this belay device and might be able to compare it to other high friction devices. Any info/opinions from experience are appreciated. I have experince with them. Short version: Get the DMM Bugettes for real thin lines @8.5 and under. At 26grams it feels like tinfoil. Reversino next in line. For the rated rope sizes a bit on the midrange point, though, these V-Twins are awesome! Mostly you will find that for toproping you not only get great control (if you double up on the carabiners you increase the braking force), but if combined with steel locking carabiners on top, total elimination of the aluminum oxide getting on the rope and turning your hands black. (Aluminim is suspected of contributing to Alzheimers so this is a good thing.) I have climbed on ropes as small as 7.8mil. with them and I certainly have too many belay devices currently as well. I bought 2 of the V-Twins, 4 of the Buggettes, a Revesino and 2 blah blah blah.... *Gear whore* cough* Gear whore* Cough*...anyway, I have used them leading and some lowering on the great 7.8mil Metolius Monsters. As I currently own or have tried most of the common belay devices I feel pretty confident in laying this down on the money. Although I have not rappelled on the V-twins on my 7.8m ropes, (the V-Twins are rated for 8-10.5mm btw), based on lowering people on skinny singles (9.8mil) while toproping, that the V-Twin devices work better than any other similar ATC style device for this size range of ropes. For instance, while in Red Rocks I also used the the new Kong Ghosts on the doubles for rapping for comparison. The Ghosts are rated for 7.5mil to 10.5. What I I learned was this: no matter what the Kong site says, I do not recommend the Kong for 7.8 mil ropes. One can, and we did, double up on the locking carabiner which increases the friction and it's just not enough to get that feeling of solid control. I suspect that feeling would also exist on the V-twins on tiny lines. All of these damn things run through skinny ropes so fast that an accident could easily be the result. Additionally, my common practice of rarely knotting the ends and very very rarely using a prussic backup can not and should not be followed on the smaller lines. Suicide if so I suspect. What I found is that the DMM Bugettes outperform both the V-Twin and the Ghosts for skinny ropes. Additionally, at 26 grams, you'll think you have a piece of tinfoil or a bubblegum wrapper is there and not notice the weight. The V-twin is much better than the Kongs in my opinion. 1 big caviet on the V-twin is that when I first got mine, it slightly frayed my BRAND NEW rope. There was an obvious line down the rope, as if a person had taken a sharp thumbnail and dragged it down the rope and slightly fluffed and frayed the rope. Later, after I'd used them a bit, I had them on another new line, and was watching for this anomaly carefully and didn't see it. Perhaps the casting had created a sharper relief on the gripping bumps that wore off with some use. This could be mitigated by slightly rubbing a piece of fine sandpaper over your new one. As the material in the V-Twins is stainless, which is significantly harder metal than aluminum, these will outlast any aluminum ATC by a huge margin. They may even outlive us. Buy them, they rule.
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metatarsal-over-muscle
Jun 19, 2008, 11:15 PM
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Thanks, I just might have to get the buggette too.
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wings
Jun 19, 2008, 11:45 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: Aluminim is suspected of contributing to Alzheimers so this is a good thing. Not to hijack this thread (fyi, I use a reversino with my doubles), but ... http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/...fo.php?documentID=99 - Seyil
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billcoe_
Jun 20, 2008, 4:44 AM
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http://www.assocpharmtox.org/pages/AlumIntro.html Thread hijack in progress Wings! Hard to say either way, best just to be careful in anycase. However, back on topic, strangest thing tonight. Just got back form climbing a bit ago. We were toproping. First route, I used my Trango Cinch on a brand new Beal 10.2 70m Dry ropes (literally- the straps holding the coil on the rope together were cut at the base of the route). When first lowering, I let the cinch lock and rope kept runing through the thing for 15-20 feet. I yelled at my other buddy and said "Hey, check this out!". I was able to control the rope by braking like with an ATC, but the rope was running despite being locked off. Then I used the V-Twin next route, and it seemed slicker than ever I've ever felt with anything over 9.1m diamter. So maybe your friends were right. I will say that Ujahn was barely able to get the Reverso to stop at all, and he was totally locked off and cranking with both hands to the point that I reached over to give a backup belay and asked if he needed extra friction. So, the V-Twin outperformed the Reverso, but it seemed slicker than normal. FYI.
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sungam
Jun 20, 2008, 9:08 AM
Post #11 of 13
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sounds like the rope was the problem...
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billcoe_
Jun 20, 2008, 10:03 PM
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sungam wrote: sounds like the rope was the problem... *REVERSE REACH AROUND RE-HIJACK IN PROGRESS* Yes, I pointed it out that way because the orig. Posters reporter (whomever wrote what he read) may have experienced something similar with the V-Twin. And now back to our other discussion:......wait........what the hell were we discussing...... Whats my name? .......(wanders off...............)
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