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cracklover
Jun 19, 2008, 12:49 PM
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fresh wrote: cracklover wrote: y'know, sometimes I can actually *hear* the brain cells popping as I read rc.com. Ouch. GO wait.. are you saying you don't think that a cinched up 8 changes the fall factor? huh.. well, to each his own..
No.
Edited to add: That was not what I was responding to, but now that you ask - no, a cinched up 8 does not change the fall factor. The fall factor refers to the rope between your knot and the belay device, and the distance you fall.
There are a number of additional factors that can change the forces significantly, such as the type of rope, the weight of the climber and belayer, and the friction on the rope between the belayer and the top piece catching your fall. These, like the cinching of a knot, effect the amount of actual force your top piece sees. However, none of these things effects the actual fall factor.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jun 19, 2008, 12:55 PM)
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robbovius
Jun 19, 2008, 1:33 PM
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cracklover wrote: fresh wrote: cracklover wrote: y'know, sometimes I can actually *hear* the brain cells popping as I read rc.com. Ouch. GO wait.. are you saying you don't think that a cinched up 8 changes the fall factor? huh.. well, to each his own.. No. Edited to add: That was not what I was responding to, but now that you ask - no, a cinched up 8 does not change the fall factor. The fall factor refers to the rope between your knot and the belay device, and the distance you fall. There are a number of additional factors that can change the forces significantly, such as the type of rope, the weight of the climber and belayer, and the friction on the rope between the belayer and the top piece catching your fall. These, like the cinching of a knot, effect the amount of actual force your top piece sees. However, none of these things effects the actual fall factor. GO
Gabe if I may:
"The fall factor refers to the ratio between the length of rope out (measured from your tie-in knot to the belayer/anchor), and the distance you fall"
fall factor is purely a calculated number used to indicate the relative severity of forces acting on the belay system, but is not a measure of force.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Jun 19, 2008, 1:36 PM)
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 19, 2008, 2:04 PM
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I am no math genius, but this doesn't add up. First you say this.
WVUCLMBR wrote: We figure he probably fell 30-35ft.
Then you say this:
WVUCLMBR wrote: Ok, this is the best pic of the route we have. If climbpa reads this he can probably give a better estimate of the distance. The bottom of the pic is +/- 10 ft off the ground. He was about 5-8ft higher up when he fell about to clip the 3rd bolt. His feet were on the ledge his hands are on in this pic.
How do you fall 30-35 feet when you are 15-20 feet above the ground. Let's see if my calculations are correct then that puts you between 10-15 feet UNDERGROUND. Sounds to me you haven't thought this troll through.
Josh
(This post was edited by blueeyedclimber on Jun 19, 2008, 2:05 PM)
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 19, 2008, 2:10 PM
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caliclimbergrl
Jun 19, 2008, 2:11 PM
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angry wrote: The only think several <FF1 whippers in a row will do is make it hard to untie your knot. This is assuming the gear you are falling on is good enough to be repeatedly fallen on.
I agree with everything you've said, but in addition to making it harder to untie your knot, it would probably also make the fall less comfortable, right?
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happiegrrrl
Jun 19, 2008, 3:19 PM
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[misquote "WVUCLMBR"] I get that you are being critical of me b/c I came on the site exclaiming a clean fall of 30 feet was a BIG whipper.... and proudly proclaiming that luckily I was paying attention while belaying.... and that it surprised me, quite frankly, to almost get whacked by a piece of choss.....
WV - I thought you had finally connected with the 'stop digging' concept from the other thread. You are really setting yourself up to be an unliked person here, and not unliked in a way that works for you. Trashing someone's wife because someone bagged on you - extremely poor style.
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 19, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Oh no, an unliked person on rc.com....my worst nightmare....I'll delete the post asap and make sure my style in the future is more PC. Sorry everyone.
Edited to add: Fuck you. I really don't care.
(This post was edited by WVUCLMBR on Jun 19, 2008, 3:27 PM)
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hafilax
Jun 19, 2008, 5:05 PM
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cracklover wrote: fresh wrote: cracklover wrote: y'know, sometimes I can actually *hear* the brain cells popping as I read rc.com. Ouch. GO wait.. are you saying you don't think that a cinched up 8 changes the fall factor? huh.. well, to each his own.. No. Edited to add: That was not what I was responding to, but now that you ask - no, a cinched up 8 does not change the fall factor. The fall factor refers to the rope between your knot and the belay device, and the distance you fall. There are a number of additional factors that can change the forces significantly, such as the type of rope, the weight of the climber and belayer, and the friction on the rope between the belayer and the top piece catching your fall. These, like the cinching of a knot, effect the amount of actual force your top piece sees. However, none of these things effects the actual fall factor. GO
Why do people always resort to nitpicking when they're looking for an argument? It reminds me of the Monty Python sketch. In fact this whole site seems like a Monty Python sketch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HaRFBSq9k
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stymingersfink
Jun 19, 2008, 5:15 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: [misquote "WVUCLMBR"] I get that you are being critical of me b/c I came on the site exclaiming a clean fall of 30 feet was a BIG whipper.... and proudly proclaiming that luckily I was paying attention while belaying.... and that it surprised me, quite frankly, to almost get whacked by a piece of choss..... WV - I thought you had finally connected with the 'stop digging' concept from the other thread. You are really setting yourself up to be an unliked person here, and not unliked in a way that works for you. Trashing someone's wife because someone bagged on you - extremely poor style.
Kettle here.
YOUR BLACK!!!!!!
edited to correct HG fucked up "misquote" tag.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Jun 19, 2008, 5:26 PM)
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 19, 2008, 5:16 PM
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Actually this site is more like gay porn. It blows balls and is full of whiny bitches. (not that I watch gay porn).
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robbovius
Jun 19, 2008, 5:37 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: Actually this site is more like gay porn. It blows balls and is full of whiny bitches. (not that I watch gay porn).
dude, you named your grigri. that puts you at the top of the gayness heap by a mile.
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cracklover
Jun 19, 2008, 5:39 PM
Post #62 of 134
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robbovius wrote: cracklover wrote: fresh wrote: cracklover wrote: y'know, sometimes I can actually *hear* the brain cells popping as I read rc.com. Ouch. GO wait.. are you saying you don't think that a cinched up 8 changes the fall factor? huh.. well, to each his own.. No. Edited to add: That was not what I was responding to, but now that you ask - no, a cinched up 8 does not change the fall factor. The fall factor refers to the rope between your knot and the belay device, and the distance you fall. There are a number of additional factors that can change the forces significantly, such as the type of rope, the weight of the climber and belayer, and the friction on the rope between the belayer and the top piece catching your fall. These, like the cinching of a knot, effect the amount of actual force your top piece sees. However, none of these things effects the actual fall factor. GO Gabe if I may: "The fall factor refers to the ratio between the length of rope out (measured from your tie-in knot to the belayer/anchor), and the distance you fall" fall factor is purely a calculated number used to indicate the relative severity of forces acting on the belay system, but is not a measure of force.
Right. Um, I never said it was a measure of force. Although it can be used, along with other factors, to calculate force.
GO
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 19, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Dude, I was joking about naming my grigri. The fact I spend all day on here or defend myself against you retards puts me on the top of this homo sausage-fest we call rc.com.
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robbovius
Jun 19, 2008, 5:56 PM
Post #64 of 134
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hafilax wrote: cracklover wrote: fresh wrote: cracklover wrote: y'know, sometimes I can actually *hear* the brain cells popping as I read rc.com. Ouch. GO wait.. are you saying you don't think that a cinched up 8 changes the fall factor? huh.. well, to each his own.. No. Edited to add: That was not what I was responding to, but now that you ask - no, a cinched up 8 does not change the fall factor. The fall factor refers to the rope between your knot and the belay device, and the distance you fall. There are a number of additional factors that can change the forces significantly, such as the type of rope, the weight of the climber and belayer, and the friction on the rope between the belayer and the top piece catching your fall. These, like the cinching of a knot, effect the amount of actual force your top piece sees. However, none of these things effects the actual fall factor. GO In the same way friction in the system increases the fall factor, the tie-in knot cinching reduces the fall factor.
um, no, this is wrong. the greatest amount of force that a belay system can see is in a factor 2 fall, as when a climber falls directly onto an anchor.
the formula for fall factor is excruciatinly simple:
Fall factor = length of fall / length of rope.
that's it.
the forces generated by that factor two fall can vary, by the circumtances of the fall, but any friction introduced into the fall ( say by, sliding down a slab, as opposed to falling from an overhang, or hanging belay) will LOWER the forces generated in the fall ( since some of the energy of that fall will be dissipated as heat due to the friction), but the fall factor remains at 2. friction intheb belay system, tightness of knots, etc have no effect on the fall factor. that is simply a calculation based on the formula above.
you're mistaking fall factor, for fall FORCES.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Jun 19, 2008, 5:57 PM)
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robbovius
Jun 19, 2008, 5:59 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: Dude, I was joking about naming my grigri. The fact I spend all day on here or defend myself against you retards puts me on the top of this homo sausage-fest we call rc.com.
dude, only a homo from WV would joke about naming his grigri.
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robbovius
Jun 19, 2008, 6:01 PM
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cracklover wrote: robbovius wrote: cracklover wrote: fresh wrote: cracklover wrote: y'know, sometimes I can actually *hear* the brain cells popping as I read rc.com. Ouch. GO wait.. are you saying you don't think that a cinched up 8 changes the fall factor? huh.. well, to each his own.. No. Edited to add: That was not what I was responding to, but now that you ask - no, a cinched up 8 does not change the fall factor. The fall factor refers to the rope between your knot and the belay device, and the distance you fall. There are a number of additional factors that can change the forces significantly, such as the type of rope, the weight of the climber and belayer, and the friction on the rope between the belayer and the top piece catching your fall. These, like the cinching of a knot, effect the amount of actual force your top piece sees. However, none of these things effects the actual fall factor. GO Gabe if I may: "The fall factor refers to the ratio between the length of rope out (measured from your tie-in knot to the belayer/anchor), and the distance you fall" fall factor is purely a calculated number used to indicate the relative severity of forces acting on the belay system, but is not a measure of force. Right. Um, I never said it was a measure of force. Although it can be used, along with other factors, to calculate force. GO
yeah, I was just clarifying. I gotta go do more math now. longhand. its my therapy for the early onset alzheimers.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Jun 19, 2008, 6:03 PM)
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caliclimbergrl
Jun 19, 2008, 6:03 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: Actually this site is more like gay porn. It blows balls and is full of whiny bitches. (not that I watch gay porn).
So why are you here?
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robbovius
Jun 19, 2008, 6:05 PM
Post #68 of 134
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nerver minding the difinitive hairsplitting and retarded argumenting, one thing I do know...
after a big Whipper, quite often a big wiper is needed. and new underwear.
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happiegrrrl
Jun 19, 2008, 6:09 PM
Post #69 of 134
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You should make a poll on that topic (asking if people ever had to wipe after a whip). It might be an interesting thread(and just as full of shit as the drawers and/or lack thereof in the thread).
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zeke_sf
Jun 19, 2008, 6:27 PM
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caliclimbergrl wrote: WVUCLMBR wrote: Actually this site is more like gay porn. It blows balls and is full of whiny bitches. (not that I watch gay porn). So why are you here?
THE existential question. Why are we here? There must be a reason! Some kind of cycle must be fulfilled, some purpose gained... I propose the Theory of Posting Evolution. Behold!:
1) Serious Poster - Seriously! The caveman of posting kind
2) Joking Poster - Oh, I see, this is all for funzies! the self-awareness to grasp the tool of mocking one's recent status as a serious poster is grasped and, in short order, is gleefully used as a blunt instrument
3) Butthurt Poster - Hey, these other people are really being jerks, even though I was clearly joking. A painful but necessary step in the poster's evolution
4) Jaded Poster - Ha! Fuck these guys! I'll post, but I've seen too much to take this shit seriously anymore. Highly evolved senses of irony and sarcasm abound; an almost zen-like command of the nuances of posting leaves lesser posters feeling taken advantage of without even knowing why they feel that way
5) Majid - The Summit of Posting! Need I say more?
Disclaimer: like Darwin's, this is only a theory, so, you know, it's probably wrong.
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jt512
Jun 19, 2008, 6:28 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: I wasn't standing directly below him....more like 8 ft back and 5 ft right.
That's almost 10 feet away from the start of the climb, which is too far, if your partner can take a big fall onto the second bolt. In that situation, I usually belay right up against the wall and about 2 feet to the side. This way, if the climber falls, I don't get pulled forward or laterally at all. I'm out of the way just enough to not get fallen on, and I'll get pulled straight up, which minimizes the amount that my movement will increase the length of the fall. After the third bolt is clipped, you can usually move a little further back into a position from which you can more comfortably keep an eye on your partner.
Jay
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 19, 2008, 6:36 PM
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My stance was dictated by the terrain below the climb. I didn't wanna stand in the brush, or in the puddle, or on the slanty rock. I was gonna stand on the point he took off from after he was on.....this is where the rock landed. But thanks for the advice and serious post.
As far as what type of poster I am.....I am a online asshole. I only post while @ work, so I'm usually in a pissy mood. If you bump into me climbing I'm much more pleasant. 
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milesenoell
Jun 19, 2008, 6:41 PM
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While I doubt it makes any real difference, I'd expect that the knot's tightening to essentially be reflective of the fact that the rope in the knot is stretching and thus providing a (ever so slightly) longer section of rope to stretch and reducing the fall factor. Of course you are probably only extending the rope by a few inches so I can't imagine that it helps much.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jun 19, 2008, 7:52 PM)
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WVUCLMBR
Jun 19, 2008, 6:52 PM
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Like most of my threads this took the perdictable turns:
1. My OP
2. 3 somewhat good answers
3. Me being an ass
4. Chicks pointing out that I am an ass
5. Me being a bigger ass
6. Thread drifting to belay devices or fall factors or homosexuality
7. Thread lingering to a slow death
I won't be around tommorow (I get to get paid to play golf ) so I'll smell ya'll Monday.
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zeke_sf
Jun 19, 2008, 6:57 PM
Post #75 of 134
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8. The self-proclaimed victory - The most hollow victory of all
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