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Arrogant_Bastard
Jun 19, 2008, 8:19 PM
Post #26 of 32
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Registered: Oct 31, 2007
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shimanilami wrote: moose_droppings wrote: Clip in with the rope 1st, backup if needed with any runner/PAS. Back up you're rope?! No offense, Moose, but that's absurd.
It could be easily argued that you're backing up your biner.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jun 19, 2008, 8:21 PM
Post #27 of 32
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Registered: Oct 31, 2007
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: shimanilami wrote: moose_droppings wrote: Clip in with the rope 1st, backup if needed with any runner/PAS. Back up you're rope?! No offense, Moose, but that's absurd. It could be easily argued that you're backing up your biner.
Alternately, you could argue for PTFTW.
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scenque
Jun 19, 2008, 8:30 PM
Post #28 of 32
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Registered: May 16, 2007
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caliclimbergrl wrote: You can't use the rope as a personal when you're setting up a rappel.
You can, but it's a pain (as AlexCV said). Whenever I rappel off a trad route, I usually anchor myself in with one of the many slings I carry and one of the lockers I normally use as part of my anchor setup. Considering all the crap that you haul up with you on a multipitch climb, I find it hard to justify the need for a dedicated tie-in when you can use the rope or repurpose gear that you already have when necessary.
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moose_droppings
Jun 20, 2008, 12:27 AM
Post #29 of 32
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Registered: Jun 7, 2005
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shimanilami wrote: moose_droppings wrote: Clip in with the rope 1st, backup if needed with any runner/PAS. Back up you're rope?! No offense, Moose, but that's absurd.
No offense taken, its a personal choice. Some guys I've climbed with feel better with 2 points of attachment at belays. Whatever floats ones boat.
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hafilax
Jun 21, 2008, 9:12 PM
Post #30 of 32
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Registered: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 3025
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caliclimbergrl wrote: I was taught to always use two personals when climbing multi-pitch. So I always use my daisy *and* the rope. I would be uncomfortable with just the rope and here's why: Picture this situation. You lead a pitch, make an anchor, and bring up your partner. They come up, clip in for a bit to re-arrange gear, and then they take off on lead. They are out of range of sight and hearing after not too long. They somehow communicate with you that they are safe, so you take them off belay and they start pulling up rope. They're going to pull it until they can feel you since it's so hard to communicate. At this point, I unclip my rope from the anchor system. If you don't, it's going to be difficult to do since there is going to be tension in the rope! The only way to do this safely if all you had was the rope would be to wait until they had you on belay before you unclipped and that can be difficult -- especially when your partner is far away and hard to communicate with. So I just unclip it and leave the daisy chain clipped in until I know I'm on belay. Maybe other people feel comfortable using just the rope, but I prefer to use both a daisy chain and the rope. ETA: I also like to have my daisy to anchor in if I'm going to have to repel. I bring it even if the decent is a walk off because you never know when someone is going to get injured and you're going to have to rappel the route using trees and whatever else you can find to get down. You can't use the rope as a personal when you're setting up a rappel.
I used to keep a sling hitched to my tie in points with a biner but I was always tangling with my gear so I stopped using it and haven't missed it. I just use one of the lead slings to anchor when rappelling but must of the routes around here have walk-offs (which I greatly prefer anyway).
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vegastradguy
Jun 21, 2008, 11:07 PM
Post #31 of 32
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
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caliclimbergrl wrote: At this point, I unclip my rope from the anchor system. If you don't, it's going to be difficult to do since there is going to be tension in the rope! The only way to do this safely if all you had was the rope would be to wait until they had you on belay before you unclipped and that can be difficult -- especially when your partner is far away and hard to communicate with. So I just unclip it and leave the daisy chain clipped in until I know I'm on belay.
or, you could just hold the rope above the attachment point to keep tension from coming onto it. this is what i do- makes everything quite a bit easier.
imho, leave the daisy/PAS on the ground unless you're climbing steep routes with all hanging belays. even then, its not necessary, but it can be nice.
i've taken to using the chain reactor in those types of scenarios....its a really cool piece of gear, very handy.
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drjghl
Jun 22, 2008, 5:18 PM
Post #32 of 32
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Registered: Dec 9, 2002
Posts: 135
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I agree with those who recommend clipping into the anchor with the rope when climbing trad.
Easy. Fast. Simple. No special gear. Adjustable to any length.
If you look at the Petzl catalogs, they have a diagram showing you how to clove hitch into a biner with one hand. This is how I link into the anchor.
Basically you climb to the anchor. Throw in a your fav biner. Clove hitch with one hand. Adjust to desired length. Voila.
After I clip in, I tie an additional figure eight on the rope and toss it on another piece to backup the clove.
When rappelling, this system obviously will not work because typically you untie from the rope. I just use long slings.
Have fun. Climb safe.
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