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lvpyne
Jun 26, 2008, 12:27 AM
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"Free the Belay Slave -- Women Lead Climb, Too"
A helpful reminder posted at the local Tempe REI after a year of complaining about their sexist climbing displays.
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clee03m
Jun 26, 2008, 1:13 AM
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Sweet. And it looks like the sign was taped with dirty coach's tape out of somebody's climbing bag.
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mojomonkey
Jun 26, 2008, 1:28 AM
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Were there more displays that were sexist? I really don't see much here worth complaining about for a year... Maybe I am missing something - it is just that the tied in "climber" is a male mannequin and the female mannequin is belaying, right? Would it be ok the other way around? Or should it be switched every so often? Do they routinely change their outfits but keep the girl belaying? If so, that would probably just be laziness as they can take off and put back on the harness without changing the rope around.
If I were to complain about anything from that photo, it would be that the belay carabiner is clipped into the tie in points instead of the belay loop, probably against the recommendation of the harness manufacturer. And I don't see a back up on the tie in figure 8. Those mannequins are going to die.
(This post was edited by mojomonkey on Jun 26, 2008, 2:25 AM)
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bizarrodrinker
Jun 26, 2008, 3:28 AM
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You've got too much time on your hands if you complained about that for an entire year.
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kimmyt
Jun 26, 2008, 1:25 PM
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What we really need to be asking REI is why on earth we need Women Specific Chalkbags...
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kimmyt
Jun 26, 2008, 1:53 PM
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In reply to: PRANA Women's Women's Chalk Bag Elegant style and slightly petite size make the Prana® Chalk Bag for girls only! 
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getout87
Jun 26, 2008, 2:00 PM
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kimmyt wrote: In reply to: PRANA Women's Women's Chalk Bag Elegant style and slightly petite size make the Prana® Chalk Bag for girls only!
I too find it kind of ridiculous, but it might work really well for some. I've heard many a girl climber complain about the majority of climbing equipment isn't aesthetically girl friendly. But, I'm a guy, so what do I know.
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wonderwoman
Jun 26, 2008, 3:53 PM
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What kills me is that the last time I went looking for a harness, I could only find 1 women's harness that had gear loops! It's as if we only climb in the gym or lead sport.
Where is a lady trad climber supposed to put her nuts, huh?
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lena_chita
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Jun 26, 2008, 3:57 PM
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kimmyt wrote: In reply to: PRANA Women's Women's Chalk Bag Elegant style and slightly petite size make the Prana® Chalk Bag for girls only!
Wow, it is actually real? I was totally pulling the idea of "sized to accomodate smaller hands" out of the air.
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kimmyt
Jun 26, 2008, 4:13 PM
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Yeah, it's totally real! I saw it the other day when I was shoppin. And the thing was really tiny. I don't know how you could get a chalk ball in there along with one of your hands.
I'm a big fan of some women's specific gear, but for some reason never new that a bag that serves no other purpose than to store something, really had to be designed for women.
I've never been a fan of prana and even less so because of this ridiculousness.
Oh, and the harness on the lady mannekin (sp) is BD's women's harness. From what I could tell, because i bought the uni version of it and visually compared the 2, it was pretty similar, aside from it being purple and the shape of the gear loops. It has 4 big loops, though, so there is someplace to put your nuts. Don't know why they designed the shape of the gear loops differently though...
(This post was edited by kimmyt on Jun 26, 2008, 4:14 PM)
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lvpyne
Jun 26, 2008, 5:17 PM
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camhead wrote: I decided to remodel the basement, my final three chapters suck so much.
Ha ha -- I am currently working on the last parts of my final three chapters. If I ever hear "Popperian historicism" again, I think I'll scream...
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aerili
Jun 26, 2008, 6:41 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: What kills me is that the last time I went looking for a harness, I could only find 1 women's harness that had gear loops! It's as if we only climb in the gym or lead sport. Where is a lady trad climber supposed to put her nuts, huh?
I agree. I use Misty Mountain women's harnesses b/c they have large gear loops. However, I noticed that their two men's trad models both have two extra gear loops that their women's do not. Huh?!
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bizarrodrinker
Jun 26, 2008, 7:02 PM
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aerili wrote: wonderwoman wrote: What kills me is that the last time I went looking for a harness, I could only find 1 women's harness that had gear loops! It's as if we only climb in the gym or lead sport. Where is a lady trad climber supposed to put her nuts, huh? I agree. I use Misty Mountain women's harnesses b/c they have large gear loops. However, I noticed that their two men's trad models both have two extra gear loops that their women's do not. Huh?!
I couldn't possibly be an issue of physical stature as opposed to sexual discrimination could it?
I mean on average men's waists are are larger so there is room for two extra gear loops.
The only other solution (to avoid an odd # of loops) would be to make the ones on a woman's harness smaller...
...but then ya'll would be protesting that too.
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aerili
Jun 26, 2008, 7:11 PM
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No, it's not due to stature as far as I can tell. The extra loops on the men's harnesses are added slightly below other loops on the back, not side by side. In the case of the men's Cadillac, it doesn't appear that a wider swami is the reason the extra loops can be added, either. (The total width of the swami is wider than the female swamis, but what I mean is that the loop placements appear to attach on an area of width that is no wider than what the women's harnesse measurements allow.)
macherry wrote: it's the going thing these days: women's specific gear. It's all a marketing ploy. Although i do appreciate gear that fits, like my women's ski boots and even my skis, it does get a bit ridiculous when it comes to chalk bags. i guess the companies are banking on the idea that women have disposable income and will drop bucks on flowery chalk bags!!!1
Most women specific gear was created due to actual, anatomic differences (like you said). But at the same time, retailers won't make those products in colors and patterns women don't like. Manufacturers employ extensive surveying and testing of their target buyers before mass product manufacture takes place, I believe. If flower-patterned chalk bags never sold, they wouldn't keep making them.
Although I'm not much on flowers, I for one like more feminine colors. I don't want or need to look like a smaller version of a dude, and most outdoor manufacturers seem to keep their color schemes tastefully feminine, and/or offer stuff in just standard, neutral earth colors as well.
(This post was edited by aerili on Jun 26, 2008, 7:22 PM)
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bizarrodrinker
Jun 26, 2008, 7:14 PM
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I was just talkin smack. I do that.
I have no idea what either harness looks like. Only what mine looks like.
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wonderwoman
Jun 26, 2008, 7:20 PM
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You should try on a chick harness sometimes. I'm thinking a nice pink one for you. With one teeny-tiny gear loop for all 3 of the quickdraws that you pick up while you're following the leader. I'm sure you'd look nice in it!
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clee03m
Jun 26, 2008, 8:16 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: You should try on a chick harness sometimes. I'm thinking a nice pink one for you. With one teeny-tiny gear loop for all 3 of the quickdraws that you pick up while you're following the leader. I'm sure you'd look nice in it!
Wow, that's annoying about woman's harnesses. I wear a men's harness that I am pretty happy with, so I never noticed...
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happiegrrrl
Jun 26, 2008, 9:36 PM
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The reason the men's harness' have extra gear loops is because they know a lot of guys are going to buy every new piece of gear on the market and doubles on anything they read about that someone else says they have doubles on.....hahahah...sort of.
I need to get a new harness someday in the near future, as mine is pretty scraped up from all the butt scooti...ummm, I mean hardcore chimney routes, that I do.....
I have the BD Primrose(femme specific), and like it well enough. But the newer version has really crappy gear loops compared to the one I have, and so it is out.
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clausti
Jun 26, 2008, 9:49 PM
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aerili wrote: No, it's not due to stature as far as I can tell. The extra loops on the men's harnesses are added slightly below other loops on the back, not side by side. In the case of the men's Cadillac, it doesn't appear that a wider swami is the reason the extra loops can be added, either. (The total width of the swami is wider than the female swamis, but what I mean is that the loop placements appear to attach on an area of width that is no wider than what the women's harnesse measurements allow.)
have you ever owned a harness where the gear loops overlap? I have.
IT IS SUPER FUCKING ANNOYING. REALLY FUCKING ULTRA STUFF-GETS-STUCK-ALL-THE-TIME ANNOYING. (old metolius harness)
in my size xs harness, i appreciate that misty simply put the number of loops on it that would fit on it, four. if i need more space, i will bring a sling. misty makes one that adjusts small enough for me to use- it is the same one that will get big enough for my partner to use. win-win!
you know what else i am in love with about my misty harness? they made the belay loop smaller. about 2/3 the diameter of the normal ones. my gri gri no longer hits me in the face, sweet! that is the kind of women's specific design i can get behind. (women wear their harnesses higher AND tend to have shorter torsos)
i think the free the belay slave protest is hilarious, as i'm sure it was intended to be.
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caliclimbergrl
Jun 27, 2008, 1:39 AM
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lena_chita wrote: kimmyt wrote: What we really need to be asking REI is why on earth we need Women Specific Chalkbags... They are 1.25 oz lighter and are designed to accomodate women's smaller hands.
Plus, they're prettier. They have flowers and stuff! LOL. J/K. I actually prefer my plain old black chalk bag and I like the slightly larger chalk bags even though I have very small hands. But I did see a sparkly silver chalk bag by mountain hardware at Smith last weekend. I made fun of it at the time, but I sort of have a thing for silver and now I wish I'd bought it!! LOL
As for the sign someone taped to the model, I think it's funny. If people have been complaining for years, they're taking themselves too seriously. But I think the sign is funny. Of course, if they really want to prove something, instead of taking the time to make signs, they should be outside on the pointy end of a rope! ;)
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