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westbend
Jun 27, 2008, 4:17 PM
Post #26 of 28
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Registered: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 22
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In reply to: You could leave the alpine knot in the rope after youre done, but if you are the last to go down, and arent going to use the 2nd line. Just untie the knot. If you dont untie it normal rules apply. You loose a percentage of rope strength by having a knot in your anchor.
I understand that each knot puts a weak point in the system but i don't think the effect is additive. There are plenty of other knots in the system making weak points. The alpine butterfly won't be the weakest link in the chain. Plus, if you untie it the master point equalization will be off.
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 28, 2008, 3:17 PM
Post #27 of 28
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Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
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colatownkid wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: zoltank wrote: Roasta wrote: Tie a 2nd alpine on the other anchor line, bring it together with the other one making a new master point for the rappel. Clip your top-rope set up to this point. Now you have nicer angle of departure for the rap and no edge to lower them over. Remember to keep the slack going to the main top-rope master point tidy and out of their way. Once they have rappelled, Simply unclipped the two biners from the Rappel master point, untie the alpines if you desire (take into account the effect the alipines have on the length of the anchor lines and therefore the position of the top-rope master point) and re-connect the biners to the original Top-rope master point (over the edge). I tired this yesterday and it worked the charm. Fast, easy, and no extra gear to carry. Zoltank, I wish I was adept at computer drawing, but I'm not so I will try to explain another option. 1. After setting up your toprope anchor, pull it up and and tie a separate power point in the two legs of your anchor. Rig rappel anchor on this knot. This will be above the edge of the cliff. 2. Your two gf's rappel on this anchor, never needing to downclimb. 3. After they are at the base, you untie this knot and you rappel on the toprope anchor. Josh effectively the same solution mentioned above by Roasta.
Are you implying that I should read before posting. pfffft!.
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pipsqueekspire
Jun 29, 2008, 5:30 AM
Post #28 of 28
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Registered: Nov 3, 2003
Posts: 222
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In AMGA land- pulling up the anchor tying a BFK and letting the GFs rap from there is the way to go. (they use another back up lower line of course).
Another option I like to use when I am afraid of the down climb is I rap off 1/2 the anchor with my cordelette or extra tail of the static line on a munter. I pre rig my dynamic rope rap with a knot 3 feet below my belay device. I DO NOT put knots in the short rap. This is so I can just let go of the short rap once I have the dynamic rope above me and in control. I already have an "oh SH!T" back up with the knot in my dynamic rope.
One caveat- raping a 6-7mm cord on a munter can be slick. But this is better than trying to down climb a 5.11 overhung roof.
A butterfly is a fine knot to use for your mini rig. You might also use an "in line" fig 8. Get some one to teach you that- its hard to explain but easy to do.
just a thought
-pip
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