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Scrupuruss
Jul 9, 2008, 5:58 AM
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A couple friends of mine and I went to the Pie Slice today, hoping to do some 5.10 climbing by either top rope or bolted lead. It was the first time to the Pie Slice Area for all of us, and we were without a guidebook-- just going on what we could find on the internet.
We could not figure out how to safely attempt any route. The first bolt on the lead route was over 15 feet up, a runout that none of us were prepared to try.
We circled the rock several times and couldn't figure out how to get to the top to build an anchor for top roping.
So my question is: What's up with that? How do people do it?
(Epilogue: We were afraid that our climbing expedition was going to turn into only a hiking expedition, but we ended up finding the Top Rope Wall and doing the easiest route there.)
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shimanilami
Jul 9, 2008, 6:51 AM
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Stick to the gym, noob.
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sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 10:15 AM
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consider bringing a mat next time, or just try the route and you will probobly see that it is easy enough to reach the first bolts, or it's too hard to clip mid-sequence before it (hence the mat).
best of luck!
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joeforte
Jul 9, 2008, 11:05 AM
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If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. This gives you a great opportunity to warm up on the start, and practice downclimbing. Next time up there, try this:
Climb up 5 feet, then downclimb it. This will teach you the first few holds and stances. Repeat for 10 feet (you've boulderered 10 feet before right?). Now that you know where all the holds are for the start, make it a goal to clip the first bolt. Consider it the "top" of the "boulder problem". Have your buddy put you on belay, with enough slack out from the start to clip the first bolt. This way he can spot you as you climb to the first bolt. When you finally reach it, if you are totally pumped you can just clip it and hang, if not, SEND IT!!!!!
On a side note, a high first bolt makes the second bolt much safer in most cases, but beware of high clipping it (clipping it from a stance too low, causing a ton of dangerous slack between you and the ground). Make sure you climb high enough so that the second bolt is within easy reach, and you have a good stance. High clipping is dangerous because if you pull up all that slack to clip a bolt way above your head, and you blow it, you're probably going to deck. This is mostly an issue on the 2nd and 3rd bolts, but any time you high clip you are looking at a much longer fall than if you would have just climbed 2 feet higher to a better stance.
Lastly, some sport/gym weenies would use a "stick clip" to preclip that high first bolt (and sometimes the 2nd, 3rd, ect.). If you do this, you will turn into a weenie yourself. Don't be a weenie. Downclimbing is an important skill to have as a leader... so go get that first clip!
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sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 11:30 AM
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joeforte wrote: Don't be a weenie. Downclimbing is an important skill to have as a leader... so go get that first clip!
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clausti
Jul 9, 2008, 1:53 PM
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Scrupuruss wrote: So my question is: What's up with that? How do people do it?
START HERE: Look at the moves at the bottom. ignore the distance for a moment and see if you can read a clear sequence. If yes, move to 2, if no, move to 6.
2. Does it look too hard to do? If yes, move to 6, if no, move to 3.
3. Does your friend(s) know how to spot properly? can they control a fall from above their heads? If yes, move to 4, if no move to 6.
4. Have your buddy set you up "on belay", with enough slack to clip the first bolt. Start climbing deliberately and in a controlled manner. Do you reach moves that you do not feel confident doing before you are eye level with the bolt? If yes, move to 5, if no, move to 11.
5. Downclimb in a controlled fashion to the ground. Do you still want to do the route? Does the rest of it look cool? If yes, move to 6, if no, move to 10.
6. Find a stick where (Length of stick) + (your height) = Distance to First bolt. Do you have tape? if yes, move to 7, if no move to 10.
7. Tape JUST THE SPINE of the top biner of a quickdraw to the top of the stick LIGHTLY. Just firmly enough to support the weight of the draw + rope. Under no circumstances wrap it more than 1.5 times. Go find a 2" twig. Can you find a 2" twig? if yes, move to 8, if no, move to 10.
8. Prop the gate of the biner open with your twig. Do you know how to not back clip? If yes, go to 9. If no, go to 12.
9. Clip your rope into the draw on the stick like it is on a bolt. Lift it up to the bolt. Clip it through the bolt, pulling down on the ROPE not the STICK. Once it is clipped, pull on the stick. Clean up your damn tape. Go to 11.
10. Go climb a different route.
11. Clip it and climb on. you are, hopefully, on belay for real.
12. Do you know how to set up a top rope anchor and not die? if yes, go to 13. if no, go to 14.
13. Go toproping.
14. Go the fuck home.
Summary- use your best judgment, and clean up your trash. Also, I can't speak for this particular area, but some places are bolted with stick clips in mind.
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markc
Jul 9, 2008, 2:44 PM
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Helpful and damn funny. Well played, madam.
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Scrupuruss
Jul 9, 2008, 7:21 PM
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Thanks all. This thread has been helpful and actually sort of encouraging. I hope to try the Pie Slice again some day with the aid of either a crash pad or stick.
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shockabuku
Jul 9, 2008, 7:32 PM
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Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know.
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sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 7:48 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know.
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zeke_sf
Jul 9, 2008, 7:52 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know.
Don't forget the sherpa.
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sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 8:08 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa.
Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience.
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zeke_sf
Jul 9, 2008, 8:19 PM
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sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience.
I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND!
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sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 8:33 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND!
I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence.
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shockabuku
Jul 9, 2008, 9:38 PM
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sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND! I will stop now at the risk of taking it too far, which I would have done. I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence.
Translated: Magnus is a quitter.
Quitter.
Ha!
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sungam
Jul 9, 2008, 10:01 PM
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shockabuku wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND! I will stop now at the risk of taking it too far, which I would have done. I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence. Translated: Magnus is a quitter. Quitter. Ha!
I'll do it, but just cuz you made me.
This is your fault, shukabokghey.
Don't forget your t.v. crew so you can shoot footage of dying climbers on your way up, but luckily you left your conscience at home, so you can doso without care or guilt.
But obviously all that matters is your summit bid, cuz that's your money bought claim to fame!
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shockabuku
Jul 9, 2008, 10:06 PM
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sungam wrote: shockabuku wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: sungam wrote: zeke_sf wrote: shockabuku wrote: Bring a ladder; that's why they have ladders on Everest you know. Don't forget the sherpa. Ooohh, ooohhhhh! Don't forget your sense of self importance, and make sure to leave your sense of awareness of others at home, with your conscience. I feel it would be inappropriate to tell the OP to watch out for inexperienced Chinese climbers bum rushing the ladder as soon as it is erected. If I weren't so hindered by my scruples, I would also feel compelled to remind the OP that you need your sherpas to help enforce Russell's executive decision for you to turn around. You have first bolt fever, it's further away than it looks. The ladder's clogged, you don't have enough time. TURN AROUND! I will stop now at the risk of taking it too far, which I would have done. I congratulate myself in taking this step in maturity, and give myself the official magnus' gold star award for excellence. Translated: Magnus is a quitter. Quitter. Ha! Fine. I'll do it, but just cuz you made me. This is your fault, shukabokghey. Don't forget your t.v. crew so you can shoot footage of dying climbers on your way up, but luckily you left your conscience at home, so you can doso without care or guilt. But obviously all that matters is your summit bid, cuz that's your money bought claim to fame!
That was really juvenile.
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joeforte
Jul 10, 2008, 3:51 AM
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camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b.
What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead:
Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT!
If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start.
DON'T BE A WEENIE
(This post was edited by joeforte on Jul 10, 2008, 3:56 AM)
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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 8:23 AM
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joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
I think that one was a insulting/(suprisingly)informatic combo thing...
n00b.
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chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 12:24 PM
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camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b.
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chossmonkey
Jul 10, 2008, 12:30 PM
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joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
Haha!!
You should take your own advice.
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markc
Jul 10, 2008, 12:49 PM
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joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
For me, the decision to stick clip or not depends on a few factors. Height of the first bolt and even difficulty are often secondary to the nature of the landing. If we're talking about relatively flat ground without a lot of choss, I'm more willing to take the fall. If it's terrain that would be likely to end a season if you land funny, I have no qualms about protecting myself.
It's easy to tell someone to man up on the internet. It's less easy to do so when they're hobbling out from the crag because of too much bravado. As with all aspects of climbing, it's up to each of us to determine our own comfort level for risk. Besides, some other party stick-clipping the start of every route doesn't impact my climbing.
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sungam
Jul 10, 2008, 12:51 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. What about those who have Jesus as their stick clip?
I should know, I'm a minister.
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camhead
Jul 10, 2008, 12:51 PM
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joeforte wrote: camhead wrote: joeforte wrote: If there first bolt is that high, you can bet the beginning sequence is significantly easier than the overall difficulty of the route. hahahahahahahahaha! yore rong. There are quite a few routes out there that are bolted with the intention of using a stick clip. They have high first bolts, and may often have the crux right off the ground! This is more common in harder grades, but I can think of a few 5.10s in which this is the case as well. So, congratulations for saying something that is flat out wrong, and may break someone's leg. n00b. \ What a pansy ass, sport weenie attitude. See, this is the type of guy that stick clips... Remember, don't be a weenie, instead: Learn how to DOWNCLIMB, work the start (especially if it's only 15 feet), and CLIMB IT! If you really need to get up it, and really can't work the start after trying it, than you can stick-clip it and get up the thing. But I see too many guys stick clip the first bolt without even TRYING the start. Thats just a poor attitude, breeds self doubt and kills confidence. Get a strong head on your shoulders from the start. DON'T BE A WEENIE
the cool thing about rc.com and ascents lists is that I can click on this guy's profile, look at all his rad sends, and then laugh at him for being a weakmo who doesn't know what he is talking about.
So, mister joeforte, next time you want to go siege-project toprope a 5.12a in your general area, go check out "Iniquity" at the Red River Gorge. It has a dynamic, v5-ish start to it with a bad landing. The first bolt is about 15 feet up. Please come show me how to down-climb it, because I had to use my weenie stickcip.
In all seriousness, trying to apply a ballsy, "don't be a weenie" attitude to a route that has been rap-bolted is ghey. I climb sport to be safe, I climb trad to be more confident. And, since I've onsighted both sport and trad an entire number grade harder than you redpoint, I'll just say...
wait for it...
SHUT THE FUCK UP, NOOB!
(This post was edited by camhead on Jul 10, 2008, 12:56 PM)
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