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jefffski
Apr 28, 2008, 9:27 PM
Post #26 of 44
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matthewc wrote: ...we created a modern line by a process of restoring the area to more like how it was when the FAists climbed the original line. 1960's: let's call it a restoration project or, as many vancouverites call it, a reno.
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hafilax
Apr 28, 2008, 9:39 PM
Post #27 of 44
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I've taken to calling it the Crap Crags excavation. Quite a few people have gone up it already. My friends are claiming the FFA as they found an easy way around the bolt ladder. I guess their line follows the original chimney line of Crap Crags. The rock is crumbly in places so watch out. They pulled a few holds loose. Wear a helmet.
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caliclimbergrl
Apr 30, 2008, 12:06 AM
Post #28 of 44
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I spent all of last summer in Squamish and did a bit of climbing at the base of the Chief near the start of this new route. From what I understand, it's either going to be swinging up through the trees (which isn't exactly rock climbing) or it's going to end up being quite a bit harder than 5.7. Also, I don't have an issue with cleaning away trees and plants to create routes in Squamish. The chief is getting more and more vegetated as someone else already pointed out. But last summer when people were up there working on cleaning the route, they were dropping TONS of loose dirt down into the beautiful classic cracks at the base of the chief making them un-climbable. I had a friend who when half way up Rutabaga and then had to down climb because the crack was too filled with dirt to be able to jam in or even to safely place gear in. If you're going to do cleaning to create a new route, try to make sure it doesn't interfere with the already established, popular, classic lines!!
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irregularpanda
Apr 30, 2008, 12:13 AM
Post #29 of 44
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chossmonkey wrote: $10k for one route seems way excessive. They could have gridbolted the whole cliff for that. You mean like the apron?
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hafilax
Apr 30, 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #30 of 44
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My friends call it a '5.8 with an alpine feel'. More challenging than your typical Smoke Bluffs 5.8. The cleaning is done and the routes underneath should be clean as well. Just watch out for Crap Crags exfoliation when there are people on it.
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gerglenroc
May 9, 2008, 4:41 PM
Post #31 of 44
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Registered: Jun 7, 2002
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This topic is so interesting on so many levels coming from the enviro-hub of Canada with young people involved. In regards to the money I could care less how much they spent, if buddy wants to drop 10g's on 'that' go fer it, I have seen worse displays of wealth further east. Homeless shelters or breast cancer research may have been a more of a philanthropy move. Please tell me the government doesn't give your organization a tax break for any volunteer monies you received, then I would care. The bolts placed on old trad route- don't care either so long as the FA'er was asked which it seems he was. Bolting/over-bolting in 2008 is a non-issue, live with it. I think it's better to bolt the living crap outta stuff now before projects like this get the 'ole government infringed shut-down and we live with more USA type access issues....calm before the storm, everything changes, look what happen to smoker's rights(the built in stainless steel ashtrays next to urinals at my work area reminder of that.... It's the waaaay over excessive cleaning, especially of trees that I have a problem with. Is it me or does this all seem so hypocritical of the whole granola west coast schtick we have grown to love and identify with that part of Canada. Not only do a group, and a school one at that, support this, they fling wads of cash at it. It's not the bolts they gave money for really as that is a pittance, it's they contributed funds to remove trees. That is absurd, and you should really check your morals; newbies do not deserve this luxury you gave them just so they can say they topped out on the Chief one summer. Climbing and it's community have become a bit of joke over the years and makes golfers and their quest for land and water use trivial. Don't compare what you did as acceptable because they are making a highway to the Oympics, or that they built homes above the bluffs or whatever nonsense to make the world look bad but you are doing no harm. Since when does bypassing some trees stumps or trees on a route such a sick venture? Why not use them as pro. And if not enjoy 'the trees' lovely existence and that you boss/kids or wife gave you time off to go have some me-me-me time in. We are out in nature exploring what it offers, don't you love that, so what if you have to dodge a tree. If you want a clean ascent, try buildering. "If You Build It They Will Come" - that is what you should have named your route. I am not saying it's not a route, sounds like it is, but very questionable one. And not taking in the scope of your project when it comes to dropping tons of dirt on other cracks below as one visiting girl mentioned earlier(take note of that, what you are presenting to the world!) is a bullying attitude. Call yourself local, apply local ethics blahblah, but we all live in Canada and have whatever say we choose regardless of that fact we don't live there, it's my country too. 'Europa' - so what does that mean exactly? That if it was Europe this would be deemed acceptable local ethic? Someone start a thread to change the name, since nobody really owns this rock, or once vegetated rocks, call it what you want.... -Reno in Progress -Home Depot Memorial -What Happens When Tree Huggers Change Teams -We Are Sorry Peter Croft, But You Moved Away, Ours Now -Ode to The 2010 Olympics -Bob the Builder Was Here -Remember the Clayoquot -Death to the Golden Age -I Made it to the Top of the Stawammus Chief(like a button my parents bought me for crossing the Capilano Suspension Bridge when I was a kid) -The A5 Arboralist -Fastest Way Off the Coast Gosh this is fun over a morning coffee! In short, I don't care to hear anymore B.C. clear cutting-enviro-Walmart-hating-Alberta-oil-wanker-I'm-24-look-at-my-Che Guavarra-shirt attitude next time I snuggle into the forest campground from the next site over. Talk the talk, walk... But most interesting and in need of a SERIOUS response is the fact that MEC supported this!!!! Like what! ooh, they needed some product shot for their next recyclable paper cataloge?
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gerglenroc
May 9, 2008, 4:44 PM
Post #32 of 44
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jefffski wrote: matthewc wrote: ...we created a modern line by a process of restoring the area to more like how it was when the FAists climbed the original line. 1960's: By that logic, maybe we should chop all the bolts in Canada and bring the crags to what they were like in the 1960s as well. Leave the pitons.
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hafilax
May 9, 2008, 8:02 PM
Post #33 of 44
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I climbed the route last weekend just before the falcon closures took effect. It's worth the outing but be cautious of rock fall. There will always be loose rock given the nature of the fault. There's lots of fun climbing, long pitches and 3 chimney's to finish things off. gerglenroc: Are you really comparing taking out like 5 trees to clear cutting or a golf course?! There were a couple of sections of straight crack climbing that were filled with the roots of a few trees that severely impeded climbing. There is even a tree climb in there which is integral to the route. The trees are a non-issue. Have you climbed in Squamish? Every crack requires a serious excavation of dirt and moss which grows back in a couple of years if untouched.
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jkd159
May 9, 2008, 9:06 PM
Post #34 of 44
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Registered: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 64
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Ok, I've heard enough about this route that I'd like to see it for myself. Two questions: Where can I find route beta and/or a topo? Will the falcon closures likely be lifted by early July? That's when I expect to be in Squamish. Thanks!
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gerglenroc
May 9, 2008, 9:29 PM
Post #35 of 44
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Registered: Jun 7, 2002
Posts: 82
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Yes I have climbed in Squamish a few times and I am aware of the whole scrubbing necessity you have to deal with. I too have seen a route there go under because of a lack of climbing, it was a boulder however, but rock however. Could it not have been set up for the eco-Adventure race clans, I am not being sarcastic here, sounds like the kinda thing they could have incorporated into their races. I wouldn't boycott the route, I may even climb it too to see if it deserves the rapsheet we are giving it. Judging from the photos and comments it seems a bit indulged. I guess I don't see the point in it. But why all the effort, money, escavating, generators for this forgotten line. Apparently much effort was put into it than just the few weeded cracks you lead me to believe. Still think you should change the name though! How about: 'The Local Chiefs'
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boadman
Jul 22, 2008, 11:44 PM
Post #37 of 44
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Registered: Oct 7, 2003
Posts: 726
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I just went and did it this weekend. Utter choss. A couple of questions: 1. What sort of individual enjoys the incredible amount of punishment that it must have taken to clean that POS? 2. After having performed the Herculean effort, why would you publisize it? I would think you'd want to keep that sort of kink a secret. 3. What was the motivation? The climbing is terrible, it makes alpine routes in Chossorado look solid. My favorite move was the one where you lay-back off of the loose dagger-o-death up to the hollow fridge-of-fury that's sitting on top of it. This is squamish, the land of solid rock, and awesome climbs. 4. Why rename it? Crap Crags is completely appropriate. I don't know if it was just in comparison to the other two newish long routes that I did this weekend or what, but I came down from the top thinking, "Wow, that was absolutely the worst rock climb I've ever been on."
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bender
Jul 22, 2008, 11:49 PM
Post #38 of 44
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Registered: Sep 23, 2002
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boadman wrote: I just went and did it this weekend. Utter choss. A couple of questions: 1. What sort of individual enjoys the incredible amount of punishment that it must have taken to clean that POS? 2. After having performed the Herculean effort, why would you publisize it? I would think you'd want to keep that sort of kink a secret. 3. What was the motivation? The climbing is terrible, it makes alpine routes in Chossorado look solid. My favorite move was the one where you lay-back off of the loose dagger-o-death up to the hollow fridge-of-fury that's sitting on top of it. This is squamish, the land of solid rock, and awesome climbs. 4. Why rename it? Crap Crags is completely appropriate. I don't know if it was just in comparison to the other two newish long routes that I did this weekend or what, but I came down from the top thinking, "Wow, that was absolutely the worst rock climb I've ever been on." however, do note that it kept the lines on the good stuff ONE party shorter that day?
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boadman
Jul 23, 2008, 12:00 AM
Post #39 of 44
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Nope, we did it at four pm, after doing Over The Rainbow to Upper Echelon (both super fun), so it didn't affect any lines. The only good thing about it was that it helped raise my pitch count for the day, and that I didn't die from loose rock or asphyxiation from all the dirt.
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hafilax
Jul 23, 2008, 12:16 AM
Post #40 of 44
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The peregrine falcon closures are effective until July 31st which includes the upper pitches of Europa. You shouldn't have been climbing it. Please pay attention to the regulations. They specifically set up a rap route so that the first 4 pitches could be done during the closure.
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boadman
Jul 23, 2008, 8:44 PM
Post #41 of 44
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Oops. We would have respected them if we knew... There wasn't any signage.
hafilax wrote: The peregrine falcon closures are effective until July 31st which includes the upper pitches of Europa. You shouldn't have been climbing it. Please pay attention to the regulations. They specifically set up a rap route so that the first 4 pitches could be done during the closure.
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hafilax
Jul 24, 2008, 6:15 PM
Post #43 of 44
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The falcon closures are outlined in the guidebooks.
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boadman
Jul 24, 2008, 6:34 PM
Post #44 of 44
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hafilax wrote: The falcon closures are outlined in the guidebooks. I haven't looked at the guidebook for several years, but I still should have remembered as Freeway is generally closed this time of year. However, most other crags have signs posted at the base of routes with falcon closures. It's not a bad idea...
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