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ckirkwood9
Jul 30, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Hi all,
Just got back from Joshua Tree where met and climbed with 2 random climbers. One of the guys had a trango harness that he bought at the gear store (located just outside the park) a few years ago.
He mentioned his belay loop looking odd compared to mine - I noticed that his belay loop was NOT correct. It wasn't sewn around the leg loop tie-in reinforcement point, but rather around the non-load-bearing adjustable webbing behind it. I know might be confusing, but suffice it to say that the belay loop was really only attached to the waist tie-in point and not the leg loop.
SO - if you own a trango harness... check the belay loop. I didn't think to take a closeup photo of the faulty belay loop and i do not know what model it is. BUT here's a pic of the harness for identification purposes (you really can't see the problematic belay loop)
Anyway - just doing my duty and reporting on a possible problem. The guy is a marine who made it back from Iraq and is headed to Afghanistan. It would suck to lose one of our guys due to a faulty harness setup.
He's contacting the manufacturer to remedy the situation.
(This post was edited by ckirkwood9 on Jul 30, 2008, 10:35 PM)
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hafilax
Jul 30, 2008, 10:41 PM
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That's not even close to being dangerous and should be a no brainer replacement.
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maldaly
Jul 30, 2008, 10:51 PM
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Hey Charlie,
Sharp eyes on that tie-in point. First off, I want to say that it could be a sewing defect. If it is we'll replace it and track the source of the problem. More likely, though, one of the leg loops got pulled through the belay loop and the whole thing turned "in-side-out" and "up-side-down". That happens frequently enough when people are trying to un-tangle a harness. The same thing can happen to the waist tie-in point. If you pull the buckle through the belay loop the whole thing goes weird and you can end up being tied into the non-structural side of the waistbelt. Best way to check if the problem is sewing or if it's tangles is to hang the buckled harness in front of you (like a pair of shorts) and look carefully at the following:
1) Be sure the waist belt is oriented properly. On that harness the gear loops should be coming off the top of the patterned waistbelt webbing and the fastex buckle on the back (Behind the haul loop. The thing the rear leg loop risers clip to.) should be sewn in below the patterned webbing.
2) Make sure that the logos on the leg loop are right-side-up. If they are, the elastic rear leg loop risers will be coming off the top of the leg loops.
3) Make sure that the front leg loop riser (The beefy strap that connects the 2 leg loops.) isn't twisted. Also, the adjustor buckles should be outside of the where the riser leaves the leg loop. The one I can see in the photo is correct.
Harnesses are weird. Sometimes the thing I pull out of my pack is more like a Gordian Knot than a harness and it can take a couple of minutes to get it right. If you friend can't make and sense of of his please send it to us and we'll figure it out.
Climb Safe,
Mal
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gunkiemike
Jul 30, 2008, 10:58 PM
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I'm betting it's user error. Disconnect the rear elastics and pull one leg loop through the belay loop. Problem solved.
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patmay81
Jul 30, 2008, 11:17 PM
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I really hate those adjustable bits of webbing whose only function is to get in the way and make the harness more confusing to deal with. I usually never buckle them, and on one of my mammut harnesses I just cut it off; its a lot less to deal with and leaves more room for my daisy, tie in, and belay device all on my critical points.
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the_climber
Jul 30, 2008, 11:27 PM
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Another vote for it likely being user error. I've seen enough harnesses get twisted up and this loop pulled through that loop. The end result was like what's being described. Like Mal says it happens with harnesses.
Hell I've seen harnesses get so knotted up, from being pulled out of a pack and pushed back in so many times before being used next, that the knot formed can only be descriped as 'a double carbuncle with a tripple hoopshot'.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Jul 30, 2008, 11:43 PM)
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hafilax
Jul 30, 2008, 11:39 PM
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How the hell do you pull the leg loop through the belay loop accidentally?!
(AKA How'd you get the beans above the frank?)
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the_climber
Jul 30, 2008, 11:45 PM
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In the same way that a perfectly coiled rope can get hopelessly tangled when you toss it over the edge. Or how tha tperfectly organized and carfully placed rack is all twisted and caught on everything when you pull it out of your pack.
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skinner
Jul 31, 2008, 12:15 AM
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hafilax wrote: How the hell do you pull the leg loop through the belay loop accidentally?! (AKA How'd you get the beans above the frank?)
I've often wondered this myself.. as I untwist and try to make sense of my harness after pulling it from my pack.
the_climber wrote: the knot formed can only be descriped as 'a double carbuncle with a tripple hoopshot'.
I hate to point this out..
but it's actually a "Triple Karbuckle with a 1/2 Hoopshot", and this knot is only safe if you finish it off with a Finklestien Stopper!
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el_layclimber
Jul 31, 2008, 12:46 AM
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Just remember folks: even in the case of looking at your partner's crotch, redundancy is very important. Check your own and your partner's genitals often, it could save your life.
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coolcat83
Jul 31, 2008, 1:15 AM
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I once put my harness on thinking it was all straight, somehow the darn thing got twisted so it was half upside down...let's just say the leg loop elastic woke me up very rudely that day. It happens.
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stymingersfink
Jul 31, 2008, 5:03 AM
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maldaly wrote: Hey Charlie, Sharp eyes on that tie-in point. First off, I want to say that it could be a sewing defect. If it is we'll replace it and track the source of the problem. More likely, though, one of the leg loops got pulled through the belay loop and the whole thing turned "in-side-out" and "up-side-down". Climb Safe, Mal
hope the guy's more careful with his weapon and gun while in afghanistan.
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getout87
Jul 31, 2008, 11:54 AM
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the_climber wrote: In the same way that a perfectly coiled rope can get hopelessly tangled when you toss it over the edge. Or how tha tperfectly organized and carfully placed rack is all twisted and caught on everything when you pull it out of your pack.
Never ceases to amaze me.
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