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andrewd
Aug 11, 2008, 8:43 PM
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I'm reading about mountaineering (Freedom of the hills) But I have no alpine experience and I'm curious to get others opinions on what they take when going for a non-technical summit at say 14k feet, with temps at a low of 0 and 20-30mph wind. And lets say you are planning on spending the night . Seems like you could share a good bit of gear with your partner(s)
Anyone want to entertain this one?
We can limit it to the essential gear as well since, I don't care so much about your lucky chapstick
I'm just comparing the recommended kit from the book to what people are actually using.
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sungam
Aug 11, 2008, 9:44 PM
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Primarily you never assume what the wind will do...
Chapstick IS essential.
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andrewd
Aug 11, 2008, 9:59 PM
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Yeah.....I'm not saying that chapstick is not a critical gear item but I don't expect people to list all their gear down to that leval of detail (unless they want too)
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anykineclimb
Aug 11, 2008, 10:03 PM
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andrewd wrote: non-technical summit at say 14k feet..
So you're going backpacking?
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dingus
Aug 11, 2008, 10:05 PM
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Spending the night where?
See its all so subjective. Are we camping near the car? Somewhere on the trail on the approach?
Mid-climb?
Where ever darkness takes us?
Each answer calls for different kit, you see?
Generally, I go as light as I can. I will significantly alter strategy to lighten the load. So for example...
I'd rather get up at 1AM and start hiking in the dark than hike 4-hours the previous afternoon with camping AND climbing loads.
But that's just me - a frequent partner of mine prefers to camp on the way in.
At any rate, each community item bears scrutiny for weight vs. performance, from rack and rope to tent and cook kit. But often you take what you got?
If you both have stove kits take the lighter and/or better performing one.
So anyway, for a non-technical 14ner? I wouldn't consider a partner mandatory anyway. Since its not technical the community gear portion is reduced big time.
For a day trip I'd take pants, 2 shirts (all poly-whatever, no cotton), 2 pr socks, shell and a warm but light poly-stuffed jacket. Gloves and hat. Sunglasses, lip balm, sunblock, ibuprofren, food, water, 1 treat, camera, knife.... map if I feel the need (often I do not). Hat. I always take my hat. Might wear the ole long johns too - I'druther warm legs than cold ones.
If camping enroute I'd also take a pad, ground cloth, sleepingbag and *maybe* a tent or bivi sack.... maybe. Depends on how far of a walk it is and how unsettled the weather. For all but peak camping enoute I use a floorless pyramid tent (megamid in my case) that weighs less than 4 pounds and has room for 3.
If camping on somewhat technical ground I want a full-on 4-season floored tent that can withstand a gale. Since I don't happen to own one at present I avoid such situations unless invited by the better equipped.
Season also factors - I do a lot of winter ski camping and some winter mountaineering - surprisingly, cept for *some* warmer clothes, my kit doesn't alter all that much. The floorless tent really works well in snow - just not in high winds nor in really cramped and narrow confines (like on a narrow ledge)
DMT
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patmay81
Aug 11, 2008, 10:08 PM
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most people don't consider mount hood a backpacking trip, and its only 12k. Although I have heard tales of Portland yupies climbing it in high heels, and it did seem a bit of a hike (not a climb) to me.
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andrewd
Aug 11, 2008, 10:13 PM
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Non-technial...I guess more like no virtical but more like glacier travel. For example Like a "Mount Washington" Tuckermans/Lions Head route (which i realize is not 14k but has some nasty weather none the less). But with the possibility of having to bivy if weather turned on you. So I guess its more like somethign that you plan on bagging in 1 day and back to base camp (weather its your car, or hotel or actual base camp)
And added to that question, How does that situation differ from what you would take on a technical climb excluding your climbing gear?
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sungam
Aug 11, 2008, 10:16 PM
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Well, I've never been anywhere near 14k but I'll give you my rundown of winter climbing pack- lets say we're going for 2 nights.
Sleepery-
sleeping bag
sleeping bag liner
full length inflatable mat
Bivi bag (must be breathable as shit- second rate breathibility just aint worth it, especially if your sleeping in down)
Belaclava (keeps you exposed face warm!)
Shovel (diggin' caves, levelin' sleeping bits etc.)
Ear plugs- optional (does your partner snore?)
aorama-therapy lavander stuff- yeah yeah, but it works!
Maybe some booties if you're gunna be walking about taking dumps etc. in the night and don't want to put your boots on.
Eatery-
stove
gas
mug with lid and handle
spork
food. (palatable and high energy)
bit of hose that I can put on/take off the edge of the mug to stop burnzing of lips and melting
protein/energy powder (maybe a hint of creatine? dabbed in that once- what a difference!) just because it works.
Rack
Gore tex shell
wind shell (pertex ultralight) with hood
powerstretch jumper
marino base layer
depending on temps, maybe a bigger more lofty jumper
coupla sets of spare socks
powerstretch leggings
Montane terra pants (last two might become montane etxtreme salopettes)
Montane extreme smock/or a belay jacket.
Maybe gamma soft shell
Douchstien [sp] mitts (shrunken wool ones)
Climbing glovesX2
sunglasses
ski goggles
Belaclava (powerstretch again)
Maybe some touch gloves (powerstretch)
powerstretch beanie.
Good gaiters.
Helmet.
Axes/ax
Crampons
1 big powerfull headtorch and one reserve headtorch. spare big headtorch batteries (best if the use the same batteries)
Chapstick (with sunblock)
sunblock
hand sanitiser (got sick once- never want to do it again)
Water- in a nalgene wide-mouth and close to your back (plzdon'tfreeze)
Dunno if I missed anything, but I don't notice anything immediately...
Oh, and of course it all goes into a cilogear pack so I can cinch it down small for the summit day :P (although for me- Both nights would be at one camp, and the days would be spent doing several routes, but that's cuz we gots small hills over here)
did that make sense?
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andrewd
Aug 11, 2008, 10:17 PM
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Thanks for your opinion.
Im thinking i would be more interested in fast and light as well so I'm trying to mentally build my kit with a minimalistic approach but I want to make sure that I would be safe as well.
For example... When can you nix the tent and just go with a snow cave, sleeping bag and bivy?
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andrewd
Aug 11, 2008, 10:23 PM
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In reply to: Well, I've never been anywhere near 14k but I'll give you my rundown of winter climbing pack- lets say we're going for 2 nights. Sleepery- sleeping bag sleeping bag liner full length inflatable mat Bivi bag (must be breathable as shit- second rate breathibility just aint worth it, especially if your sleeping in down) Belaclava (keeps you exposed face warm!) Shovel (diggin' caves, levelin' sleeping bits etc.) Ear plugs- optional (does your partner snore?) aorama-therapy lavander stuff- yeah yeah, but it works! Maybe some booties if you're gunna be walking about taking dumps etc. in the night and don't want to put your boots on. Eatery- stove gas mug with lid and handle spork food. (palatable and high energy) bit of hose that I can put on/take off the edge of the mug to stop burnzing of lips and melting protein/energy powder (maybe a hint of creatine? dabbed in that once- what a difference!) just because it works. Rack Gore tex shell wind shell (pertex ultralight) with hood powerstretch jumper marino base layer depending on temps, maybe a bigger more lofty jumper coupla sets of spare socks powerstretch leggings Montane terra pants (last two might become montane etxtreme salopettes) Montane extreme smock/or a belay jacket. Maybe gamma soft shell Douchstien [sp] mitts (shrunken wool ones) Climbing glovesX2 sunglasses ski goggles Belaclava (powerstretch again) Maybe some touch gloves (powerstretch) powerstretch beanie. Good gaiters. Helmet. Axes/ax Crampons 1 big powerfull headtorch and one reserve headtorch. spare big headtorch batteries (best if the use the same batteries) Chapstick (with sunblock) sunblock hand sanitiser (got sick once- never want to do it again) Water- in a nalgene wide-mouth and close to your back (plzdon'tfreeze) Dunno if I missed anything, but I don't notice anything immediately... Oh, and of course it all goes into a cilogear pack so I can cinch it down small for the summit day :P (although for me- Both nights would be at one camp, and the days would be spent doing several routes, but that's cuz we gots small hills over here) did that make sense?
So you take basically what I would take backpacking during a winter trip to a "basecamp" then you have a bag that you can only put the necessities in for your summit day...I gotcha thats cool and makes sence.
So maybe my question is what from that origional kit do you have in your pack on summit day?
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dingus
Aug 11, 2008, 10:41 PM
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You take what you need, on summit day. And not one ounce more!
Cheers
DMT
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vterinme
Aug 11, 2008, 10:54 PM
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For my last trip to 20,000.
to base camp:
Back pack with Bivy pad
full length pad
bivy bag (homemade)
light weight stove
pot
3 Nalgenes (one for pee, and rotate the other two for water, coffee/tea/ cocoa).
-24 down bag
camp socks
Food, Tuna in a bag, oatmeal, gu, cheese, dehydrated bean goop
mitts
polar fleece exp weight long and top.
Summit
1 pair of mitts
down coat
gore tex coat
light weight soft shell (un- hooded)
1 pair of long underwear
1 pair of gloves
light med kit
gu
sunscreen
I'm also a fan of leaving camp at 12 to get ahead and catch the summit sunrise.
Normal east coast kit (day)
down coat, mitts, snack, xtra long johns, down coat, soft shell coat with hood for questionable days, no hood for the rest, extra pick with allen wrench, and 1 maxi pad for a med kit.
Over night is the same for the basecamp above but with the addition of 3 season tent and a sixer of cans..
Of course this will not work for all, but I have confidence in my ability and my system. My backpack has the bivy pad and I've been known to use the bag (not by choice) as a lower extremity cover mixed with the down coat both in a snow cave and not.
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majid_sabet
Aug 11, 2008, 10:55 PM
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Dingus
you are SAR's biggest nightmare .
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sungam
Aug 11, 2008, 11:07 PM
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Majid... you are EVERYONES biggest nightmare.
I forgot to mention first aid and knife.
Summit day, or the pack I take if easy climbing so no rack-
1 ax, poons.
helmet (duh)
windshell if good weather, not if shitty
gore tex (maybe not if really good weather with 0.001%chance of bad weather, but will prolly chuck it in anyways)
powerstretch tights/terra pants
merino top, powerstretch jumper, powerstretch belaclava(doubles as neck gaitor) powerstretch hat and maybe gloves, but prolly just the dueischtiens. Maybe a belay jacket.
the sun glasses- or goggles if real windy.
gaitors are pretty much and always for me.
also in the bag- water (close to the back plzdontfreeze) emergency food, 2 headtorches, map compass etc.
first aid/knife.
Chocat is inside my jackets/shirt so it doesn't get all tooth-breaky.
BTW, I <3 powerstretch, this stuff fuckin' rocks. Anyone with me on this?
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dingus
Aug 11, 2008, 11:11 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Dingus you are SAR's biggest nightmare .
Wanna compare self-evac combat wounds?
Sides, I thought YOU were SAR's worst nightmare. Me? They'd be done with my cleanup pronto.
You? The gift that keeps on giving.....
DMT
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time2clmb
Aug 11, 2008, 11:32 PM
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Majid is just jealous that he keeps getting passed by people as he suffers under the load of his huge heavy pack
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vterinme
Aug 11, 2008, 11:34 PM
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Oh yeah I forgot the knife, which is always in my pack during the winter, plus the obvious helmet, gaiters, pants (gore-tex, b/c I got a good deal and my softs died on me), boots (I wear old beat up Koflach verts, broke in, climb fine for me, and have been to several countries).
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andrewd
Aug 12, 2008, 12:27 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: Dingus you are SAR's biggest nightmare .
Ok So whats in your pack on summit day? With the following as a weather prediction:
Clear Skys but could snow later that night
0 Deg temps steady throughout the day
Base camp is half a days hike/climb from summit
not trying to pick a fight i'm just looking for alternative opinions
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andrewd
Aug 12, 2008, 12:30 AM
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I noticed that nobody mentioned any of the following (Unless I missed it):
PLB
Avalanche Beacon
Probes
Shovel
Any thoughts on this?
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sungam
Aug 12, 2008, 12:32 AM
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andrewd wrote: I noticed that nobody mentioned any of the following (Unless I missed it): PLB Avalanche Beacon Probes Shovel Any thoughts on this?
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andrewd
Aug 12, 2008, 12:45 AM
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vterinme wrote: Back pack with Bivy pad
In reply to: Summit 1 pair of mitts down coat gore tex coat light weight soft shell (un- hooded) 1 pair of long underwear 1 pair of gloves light med kit gu sunscreen I'm also a fan of leaving camp at 12 to get ahead and catch the summit sunrise.
So when does your summit mean that you are typically not planning on a bivy on your summit day and if you do your only doing it in emergency?
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glahhg
Aug 12, 2008, 1:12 AM
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Here's a gearlist of stuff I took on a recent 3-day winter ascent in the Sierras:
http://www.ricklin.net/...ra-winter-gear-list/
I wouldn't take any more clothing than that unless I knew it was gonna be super-friggin cold!
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anykineclimb
Aug 12, 2008, 1:19 AM
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andrewd wrote: vterinme wrote: Back pack with Bivy pad Please Explain this More In reply to: Summit 1 pair of mitts down coat gore tex coat light weight soft shell (un- hooded) 1 pair of long underwear 1 pair of gloves light med kit gu sunscreen I'm also a fan of leaving camp at 12 to get ahead and catch the summit sunrise. So when does your summit mean that you are typically not planning on a bivy on your summit day and if you do your only doing it in emergency?
You bring things to survive a bivy, but you certainly won't be comfortable. one of the things I have in my 1st aid kit is a foil blanket. handy for the unexpected bivy.
many alpine packs have some sort of removable foam to use as an emergency sleep pad. they're folded inhalf, length wise and provide part of the internal frame. so unfolded; about 18"x 2' give or take a bit
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andrewd
Aug 12, 2008, 1:34 AM
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pack with bivy pad...thats cool I didn't know that. Which packs that you know of have this feature?
So in your emergency bivy situation you just put all your layers on and get out of the wind i assume (hopefully in a snow cave)
This is assuming that you have left all your sleeping gear a base camp less then a days hike out?
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joeforte
Aug 12, 2008, 3:13 AM
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Cilogear packs have this feature. I replaced the stock bivy in my 60L with a slightly softer/thicker one that weighed just a tad more. Plus the pack doubles as a halfbag (or more if you get the 75L). Combine this with a belay jacket and you have a very good emergency bivy system.
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