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misanthropic_nihilist
Aug 27, 2008, 1:17 AM
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In two days I'll be starting a climbing road trip that will last for at least 6 months (hopefully). My main goal is to climb some long, hard trad routes:
Cloud Tower, Red Rock (5.12-, 6 pitches)
The Original Route, Red Rock (5.12, 14 pitches)
Astroman
and The Nose.
I've read through John Middendorf's "Nose in a Day" beta:
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/Nose.html
and he makes it sound pretty do-able for someone at my level. I've onsighted 5.11s at the Gunks and .12s at Red Rock and Potrero. I've also climbed some long routes pretty quickly (first 16 pitches of Time Wave Zero (Potrero) in less than 4 hours, after which I had to start rationing water in the 90 degree heat).
So my question is, what are your tips for how someone like me can climb The Nose in a day?
I've never been to Yosemite, so I'll spend a few weeks getting used to the granite and finding my lead ability. Maybe I'll even find that The-Nose-In-A-Day is out of my league, and that's okay. But I'd still like to know your tips and tricks for moving quickly on long routes (without a haulbag).
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majid_sabet
Aug 27, 2008, 1:50 AM
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try nose in a week first then talk about a day job.Also, look for a climb called short circuit as you enter park to your right next to the river. its 18 feet tall boulder with a crack in the middle. if you could climb that without falling then you are ready to challenge any climb in Yosemite.
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cotowers
Aug 27, 2008, 2:49 AM
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Sounds like you have the stuff in terms of the ability "to pull down" on the routes you mentioned wanting to do. But from your brief listing of previous climbs seems to me like you need to focus on dialing in your crack climbing. My advice would be to head to IC (or similar area) for the pure crack climbing experience then spend time in the Valley to get used to the rock and work on technical systems for climbing fast, to gain confidence for the Nose in a day (more less what Majid said). From your profile looks like you are living out East, I started climbing on the East Coast and thought I was a good crack climber then when I went out west I realized I was a good face climber who could put gear in cracks.
Good luck
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misanthropic_nihilist
Aug 27, 2008, 2:58 AM
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Logging more crack pitches never occurred to me- thanks for the beta. My climbing gym back home has hand/fist cracks that I would do laps on, but the only outdoor cracks that I've climbed were at Red Rock (Atman & Yin and Yang). As it turns out, Indian Creek is the first climbing stop on my road trip. I hope to be out there within a week.
(This post was edited by misanthropic_nihilist on Aug 27, 2008, 3:03 AM)
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kimgraves
Aug 27, 2008, 3:38 AM
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Um, I'm no expert, but how about aid? The great roof is 5.14 unless you can aid.
Looking forward to the TR. Good luck!
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majid_sabet
Aug 27, 2008, 3:39 AM
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Do not forget to try short circuit. That is your entry visa to any big wall climbing in Yosemite( with exception of RA).
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cotowers
Aug 27, 2008, 3:46 AM
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IC will be warm this time of year, but there are some shady crags, Reservoir Wall, 4x4 (in the afternoon), etc... Once you get the hard sizes down - big fingers, ring locks, OW the best thing about IC is the volume of routes you can climb in a day. I forgot probably the biggest thing you can do to get ready to climb the Nose in a day is to get good at transitioning between free and aid and being efficient with other rope systems jugging, short fixing, climbing in blocks etc. When I did the Nose in a day I was in decent climbing shape and like everyone my plan was to free large sections of the route, but the reality is it's a long F*&#ing route and I even hung on the 5.10 Pancake Flake pitch.
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the_leech
Aug 27, 2008, 4:03 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: Also, look for a climb called short circuit as you enter park to your right next to the river. its 18 feet tall boulder with a crack in the middle.
majid_sabet wrote: Do not forget to try short circuit. That is your entry visa to any big wall climbing in Yosemite
Majid, would you also recommend that he try short circuit?
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GeneralBenson
Aug 27, 2008, 4:48 AM
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kimgraves wrote: Um, I'm no expert, but how about aid? The great roof is 5.14 unless you can aid. Looking forward to the TR. Good luck!
I'm gonna have to second that. That Great Roof and Changing Corners pitches are both .14a if I'm not mistaken. There's also some .13 pitches I believe. I hope you know how to aid. And that's where you will lose al your time. Climb as hard as you want, but you need to be able to aid quickly, and transition quickly to get it in a day.
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skiclimb
Aug 27, 2008, 4:54 AM
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The nose in a day is a superb challenge
IT CANNOT BE DONE BY SOMEONE WHO HAS NOT DONE THE NOSE IN A STANDARD 3 OR 4 DA TRIP.
IT CANNOT BE DONE BY ANYONE ASKING
HOW TO DO IT
IF YOU DONT KNOW YOU CAN DO THE NOSE IN A DAY
THEN YOU CANT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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meahtots
Aug 27, 2008, 5:09 AM
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free the nose!
no, but good luck.
I won't be doing that any time soon.
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majid_sabet
Aug 27, 2008, 5:18 AM
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the_leech wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Also, look for a climb called short circuit as you enter park to your right next to the river. its 18 feet tall boulder with a crack in the middle. majid_sabet wrote: Do not forget to try short circuit. That is your entry visa to any big wall climbing in Yosemite Majid, would you also recommend that he try short circuit?
if he can top rope it without falling then he has my respect and i see no problem in him doing any crack climbing in Yosemite.
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marc801
Aug 27, 2008, 5:20 AM
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Two questions to ask yourself:
Can you and your partner do a belay change-over in under 5 minutes (3 being better)? If so, can you do it for 30 pitches in a row?
While you can climb 5.12 routes of reasonably long length, do you and your partner have the endurance to do 30 pitches of 5.10 in a day? (Sure, there are harder and many easier pitches on the Nose, but if you average it out...)
And another: why aren't you asking this on supertopo.com, where many more of the regular posters have actually climbed the Nose - some multiple times...in a day?
(This post was edited by marc801 on Aug 27, 2008, 5:25 AM)
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wzrdgandalf
Aug 27, 2008, 5:24 AM
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skiclimb wrote: The nose in a day is a superb challenge IT CANNOT BE DONE BY SOMEONE WHO HAS NOT DONE THE NOSE IN A STANDARD 3 OR 4 DA TRIP. IT CANNOT BE DONE BY ANYONE ASKING HOW TO DO IT IF YOU DONT KNOW YOU CAN DO THE NOSE IN A DAY THEN YOU CANT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow i feel some negative energy. He didnt say that he wanted to free the nose, he said he wanted to climb the nose. I think anyone with a general knowledge of yosemite would know that the nose is a route with some super hard free climbing. Seeing how he said that he climbs .12s, I think we can assume that he does not have the goal of doing what only two people have every done. And even if he did want to free the nose in a day, dont be such a dick about it.
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hummm
Aug 27, 2008, 7:31 AM
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Like the other said, your success heavily depends on your aid skill. How fast can you aid?
Also, assuming you are staying in Camp 4, you can get a lot of tips and insight from those climbing bums.  Straight from the horse's mouth!
Looks like by the time you made it to Yosemite, the weather will get a lot cooler, beware the weather can chage rapid and be unpreditable during this time in the park.
Good luck and have fun!
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salamanizer
Aug 27, 2008, 8:29 AM
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Just go there and climb. You don't need any B.S. training circuit at Indian Creek or anywhere else for that matter. After a week or so in the Valley, you'll know what you're capable of.
To climb the nose you need to know how to aid fast. That doesn't mean in the traditional way. It means climbing with a normal rack, leaping gear, freeing what you can and not hesitating to pull on gear. Moving up is what's important, not making the move. You're going to want to stand in your aiders as little as possible etc...
I'd suggest climbing the N.W. face of Half Dome first. If you don't make the round trip in under 12 hours car to car, you probably don't have a chance on the Nose.
You could always bivy on camp 6 or something. Bring a sheet of plastic so you don't have to sleep in piss.
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skiclimb
Aug 27, 2008, 12:29 PM
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wzrdgandalf wrote: skiclimb wrote: The nose in a day is a superb challenge IT CANNOT BE DONE BY SOMEONE WHO HAS NOT DONE THE NOSE IN A STANDARD 3 OR 4 DA TRIP. IT CANNOT BE DONE BY ANYONE ASKING HOW TO DO IT IF YOU DONT KNOW YOU CAN DO THE NOSE IN A DAY THEN YOU CANT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow i feel some negative energy. He didnt say that he wanted to free the nose, he said he wanted to climb the nose. I think anyone with a general knowledge of yosemite would know that the nose is a route with some super hard free climbing. Seeing how he said that he climbs .12s, I think we can assume that he does not have the goal of doing what only two people have every done. And even if he did want to free the nose in a day, dont be such a dick about it.
Uhm I never mentioned freeing it..lol
But there is no chance in hell he can do it in a day anytime soon if he is asking how on this forum.
Well maybe if he gets good at jugging and writes Hans a big check.
Yeah i was a bit rude but it's a fact.
If the OP would give us a better resume of his wall experience i could give some great recomendations for stuff to do while in Yosemite..But not the nose in a day.
Really suggest starting out with Serenity crack and sons of yesterday. If you flash that with no trouble (quite likely for a solid 5.12 climber)Grab your guidebook and pick out a few short vally 12s.. Then Take on Astroman (probably humbling but doable)
A great day wall and probably easy after astroman would be the regNW on Halfdome.
As far as moving fast on day walls go the biggest tips I can give are these.
1. Get good at the transitions between leads. ie setup those anchors fast (clove hitches) the belayer should be ready to second before the lead is finished (ie shoes on tied in racked locked and loaded) .
2. Be familiar with the route (no wasting time racking or routefinding or working new moves) You need to know each pitch well. With the nose this is imperitive. I doubt it can be done by any team where at least one person hasnt done the nose at least a couple times. Even the regNW HD in a day will be a challenge for a solid team that hasn't done it before.
3. Get fast at AID ..as mentioned above french free techniques and being truly comfortable quickly placing and pulling on your peices..if you are a new aider then that is gonna be a serious liability for speed
(This post was edited by skiclimb on Aug 27, 2008, 12:55 PM)
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altelis
Aug 27, 2008, 3:40 PM
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skiclimb wrote: But there is no chance in hell he can do it in a day anytime soon if he is asking how on this forum.
I love this attitude. It was the prevailing one in this thread here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...dge%20stove;#1857937
Everybody told adeptus that if he had to ask for stove recs on rc.noob he clearly didn't have the experience to climb the cassin ridge.
i mean, don't forget about the universal rule: your only experience is the experience you post in the relevant thread!
turns out he had quite the climbing resume, and ROCKED the cassin ridge (good on you adeptus)
POINTS BEING:
1) Just because somebody asks what may seem a trivial question don't AUTOMATICALLY judge him as incapable
2) DON"T BE AN ASS because somebody doesn't post their entire climbing resume. If you think that is relevant, ask for it. You may be right, you may be an ass (or both?). Don't jump down somebody's throat assuming they don't have experience
PEACE[angelic]
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misanthropic_nihilist
Aug 27, 2008, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: I'd suggest climbing the N.W. face of Half Dome first. If you don't make the round trip in under 12 hours car to car, you probably don't have a chance on the Nose.
Car to car includes 16 miles of hiking! I'm a climber not a backpacker. Besides, The Nose approach is only 10 minutes. Although I do plan on climbing the Regular route, so I will be doing that hike at some point.
As far as my aid experience, I've only soloed a couple single pitch climbs (with a clove hitch or GriGri belay). I have yet to clean an aid pitch, but I've jugged tens of thousands of feet in rainforest trees and on buildings/bridges. Although that was all with a Texas-Kick or Frog setup, and I assume I'll be using the Yosemite (one aider per jug) setup on The Nose.
I will definitely spend a lot of time practicing the mechanics of aiding before stepping up to the nose. I'll also work on speeding up my french-free climbing.
Anyone else have some tech tips on climbing fast? Your preferred way to aid through a short crux?
How to make belay change-overs even faster?
Tips on short-fixing?
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bb_guns
Aug 27, 2008, 6:49 PM
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I found Hans Florine and Bill Wright's "Speed Climbing" book excellent. It can be found at http://hansflorine.com/shop/ or Amazon.
The Link Cams made by Omega Pacific are nice for crack jugging leads. The wide range means you do not have to find the correct piece.
If you don't have a chance to climb The Nose in a multi-day trip before your NIAD attempt, try to lead the 1st 4 or 5 pitches. These pitches are typically done in the dark if you are NIAD, so doing them in the daylight a few days before helps out alot in the route finding.
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flamer
Aug 27, 2008, 7:17 PM
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misanthropic_nihilist wrote: I'll also work on speeding up my french-free climbing. Anyone else have some tech tips on climbing fast?
I've done a bit of fast climbing...well depending on what you call fast!
The one tip I can give you for short hard crux's that you will french free or aid is this.
Don't use your aiders unless you absolutely have to.
The best way to accomplish this is to use the rope. put in the piece and take. Yard up tight, reach up place the next piece, grab it, clip, yard up...repeat if needed. remember it's aid all bets are off.
This is for sections that are 10-15ft...plan to free before and after.
Other stuff...know your route...haven't done it before? Do your research on the ground....and do it well.
Photo copy the topo...shrink it, laminate it, punch a hole and wear it around your neck. quick and easy referance.
Know how your partner racks their gear....then don't hand it to them at change overs....clip it where they want it. remember reduce movement.
If you use gear slings(highly reccomended)....both you and your partner should have your own.
Have dedicated anchor "kits" and use them ONLY for anchors. On the Nose 2 lite weight locking crabs(per kit) should do fine.
Tape your hands. Fuck technique...it's faster to just shove them in and yard. Worry about not moving them around some other time.
Use "paper" tape around each toe...yes I said toe.
That much time in rock shoes...aiding, jugging etc will slaughter your feet...the less pain you are in the faster you will move.
Eat when you can. This is critical for both mind and body. Along those lines, know your body. Everybody needs different fuel....figure out what you need, what you can get away with, and carry JUST enough.
Some of these things may sound obvious but they are more crucial than they seem.
Wow i just gave away some of my "secrets".....
HAVE FUN!
josh
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joel123
Aug 27, 2008, 8:25 PM
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nose in a day is much easier than most would assume.
some tips:
1. get comfortable self-belaying free climbing with a gri-gri by soloing the south face of the column quickly.
2. Short fix everything on the nose. Lead in blocks, and have the leader carry a skinny tagline. to tag up gear. Do short pitches to keep both climbers moving as much as possible.
3. Don't aid! A climber of your free climbing ability will only benefit from pulling out 1 aider on short sections of the pitch above camp 5, the great roof, and the changing corners. On all other sections, free and french free.
4. one #3 and one #4 are adequate if you walk them up, running it out on certain sections
5. all these tips will not make you climb the route quickly alone. What is most important is just quick and smooth movement up the rock. most of the route is easy and you pull on gear on harder sections.
Be careful! quite a few people have fallen onto ledges and gotten hurt recently on the route
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salamanizer
Aug 27, 2008, 8:25 PM
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In reply to: Car to car includes 16 miles of hiking! I'm a climber not a backpacker. Besides, The Nose approach is only 10 minutes. Although I do plan on climbing the Regular route, so I will be doing that hike at some point
Wrong, it's about 4 miles hiking round trip. You need to approach via the slabs. Walking the trail around is for posers. It should only take you about 3.5 hours for the approach and decent. You had better be able to handle that little amount of hiking if you expect to have the juice for the nose.
Climbing Half Dome first gives you a good reference to go on as you can expect the nose to be about twice as hard.
...and follow Flamers advice, he makes some good points. When speed is the goal, technique goes out the window and all the rules change.
From your description of your experience level it sounds like it will be an ambitious goal for you to obtain. So, "Good Luck" and may gravity be light for you.
Oh, and enjoy the Valley.
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flipnfall
Aug 27, 2008, 9:05 PM
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I'm just jealous that you're going.
Have fun!
GT
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