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dyomad
Aug 29, 2008, 6:09 PM
Post #76 of 93
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Wow! Lots of good info here and obviously there's a lot of different ways to do the same things. Finding what works for you is key.
I started using a Kong Roll-Block which is pretty freaking handy. You can put the rope through it and tie a big knot to rap off of without ever engaging the cam. The rope goes straight up through the device without weighting the pulley or the cam. Once you're ready to haul, you just click the cam shut and run the now unweighted slack end that was previously the knot over the pulley and go to town.
I really like Zanders thing with pretensioning the haul line from below with ascenders. This gives you that much more lowerout cord to work with for those rope stretching pitches.
I have an 80m haul line for linking pitches and hauls and when rapping with a pig with doubled ropes the 70m lead line gets pretty long. This usually leaves me plenty to work with as lower out cord as well but I do have a dedicated section of cord I can use for that. Also, particularly for soloing, I like having an extra grigri along as that's my solo device of choice so I use the spare one in place of the traditional Munter-Mule setup. I just run the static or the lower out cord through the grigri. My lowerout cord lives in a bouldering chalk bag converted into a mini rope bucket. It sits nicely under the biners connecting the haul straps on the pig to the BD Rotor. This seems to keep everything nice and clean as it's most definitely one more cord to get twisted up in shit if it's just hanging around, drifting in the breeze.
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RangerJ
Aug 29, 2008, 8:12 PM
Post #77 of 93
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dyomad wrote: Wow! Lots of good info here.
Agreed. This post is way bigger than I thought it would be, and it's been extremely cool to gather a variety of different techniques
dyomad wrote: I really like Zanders thing with pretensioning the haul line from below with ascenders. This gives you that much more lowerout cord to work with for those rope stretching pitches.
Agreed, especially with kate's idea of leaving 5 m or so of the tail end of the haul line free to hook up to the bottom anchor to lower the pig out with
dyomad wrote: I have an 80m haul line for linking pitches and hauls
Not agreed. Sorry dude, but there is no way I'm hauling up a 60m lead line and an 80 m haul line plus gear on a 2 hr hike to the base of this climb. Call me a wuss, but I'll be the wuss with no broken back...
dyomad wrote: I use the spare one (grigri) in place of the traditional Munter-Mule setup. I just run the static or the lower out cord through the grigri.
Do you run the grigri inverted through this setup like I described at the first post, or in some other way?
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holdplease2
Aug 29, 2008, 8:18 PM
Post #78 of 93
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Ooooohhh! Dynomad! That's a great idea with the grigri! Sometimes the mule knot will develop a twist when releasing to lower, its a huge pain. Plus a seperate item is needed to back things up.
With your grigri technique, I have a use for the spare grigri I carry when soloing, an easy to release, and an easy to backup system which will require less time!
Thank you!
-Kate.
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pmyche
Aug 29, 2008, 8:19 PM
Post #79 of 93
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RJ, bro you don't have to lug that haul line on lead. That's what a tag line is for. You can go down to 6mm without it being too tangly, maybe smaller? With a tag line you can bring half the rack and tag up the rest later. Key when bringing the fat rack to double up pitches. Without the tag line, you can only send up gear to the leader for half the length of your haul line.
Cheers.
PS: Zephyr: yo, killer. Aye?
(This post was edited by pmyche on Aug 29, 2008, 8:21 PM)
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pmyche
Aug 29, 2008, 8:28 PM
Post #80 of 93
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A lightweight alternative to the Gri-as-mule is Josh's patented adjustable daisy dock/release.
Use your let-out line as backup on a pearabiner. When it's time to haul, turn that b/u into a quick half hitch (aka Münter) and hit the buckle button. Boom, lowering. No shoulder burn from messing with the M. mule.
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stymingersfink
Aug 29, 2008, 8:31 PM
Post #81 of 93
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pmyche wrote: RJ, bro you don't have to lug that haul line on lead. That's what a tag line is for. You can go down to 6mm without it being too tangly, maybe smaller? With a tag line you can bring half the rack and tag up the rest later. Key when bringing the fat rack to double up pitches. Without the tag line, you can only send up gear to the leader for half the length of your haul line. Cheers. PS: Zephyr: yo, killer. Aye?
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kennoyce
Aug 29, 2008, 8:44 PM
Post #82 of 93
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I'm just reading through this forum and I read one post that mentioned that Dan Osman used to rope jump onto a grigri so its got to be fine for hauling, I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I do agree that the grigri will be fine for hauling light loads, but I did want to bring up the point that it was Dan Osman's grigri that cut the rope which caused his death if i'm not mistaken. Anyway, Your setup sounds fine for light loads on overhanging terrain.
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RangerJ
Aug 29, 2008, 9:01 PM
Post #83 of 93
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pmyche wrote: RJ, bro you don't have to lug that haul line on lead. That's what a tag line is for. With a tag line you can bring half the rack and tag up the rest later.
So you mean that while the leader is climbing he's got a 60 m 6 mm chord with one end tied to his harness, and the other end tied to the non-pig end of the haul line? If so, that would make the climbing easier, but it'll add a crap more weight to the overall system, give me a 3rd rope that I have to manage, and isn't as versatile in that i can't use it for anything else (anything else that i couldn't use one of my other lines for anyways)
pmyche wrote: Without the tag line, you can only send up gear to the leader for half the length of your haul line.
In a two person situation maybe, but it's just me out there (and the voices in my head wondering what I'm doing up there by myself). I've got nothing to send to nobody, except locations that won't be manned by anybody once I leave...
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RangerJ
Aug 29, 2008, 9:04 PM
Post #84 of 93
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kennoyce wrote: ... I did want to bring up the point that it was Dan Osman's grigri that cut the rope which caused his death if i'm not mistaken.
Does anyone know what the weight load is that'll cause the cam to cut through the rope? Or the diameter of rope that Dan was using? Or do you suppose it was the sudden shockload on the Grigri that caused it to function this way (which I don't think should happen in this situation)
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stymingersfink
Aug 29, 2008, 9:26 PM
Post #85 of 93
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kennoyce wrote: I'm just reading through this forum and I read one post that mentioned that Dan Osman used to rope jump onto a grigri so its got to be fine for hauling, I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I do agree that the grigri will be fine for hauling light loads, but I did want to bring up the point that it was Dan Osman's grigri that cut the rope which caused his death if i'm not mistaken. Anyway, Your setup sounds fine for light loads on overhanging terrain.
go back and redo your homework.
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stymingersfink
Aug 29, 2008, 9:29 PM
Post #86 of 93
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RangerJ wrote: kennoyce wrote: ... I did want to bring up the point that it was Dan Osman's grigri that cut the rope which caused his death if i'm not mistaken. Does anyone know what the weight load is that'll cause the cam to cut through the rope? Or the diameter of rope that Dan was using? Or do you suppose it was the sudden shockload on the Grigri that caused it to function this way (which I don't think should happen in this situation)
he's mistaken, either that or just fukkin with ya. if you really want to know for certain, go do his homework too, bit I'll tell ya it warnt the grigri or its effect on the rope.
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pmyche
Aug 29, 2008, 11:47 PM
Post #87 of 93
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stymingersfink wrote: i think he was more worried about having too much weight on the two hour hike in to wherever he's going.
Of course, sty--thanks. Comprehension skills come in handy. I've heard.
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dyomad
Aug 30, 2008, 12:35 AM
Post #88 of 93
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RangerJ wrote: In a two person situation maybe, but it's just me out there (and the voices in my head wondering what I'm doing up there by myself). I've got nothing to send to nobody, except locations that won't be manned by anybody once I leave...
Oh RangerJ...
The plot thickens considerably. You should have run away while you still weren't a full-on aid dork. Now there's no turning back.
I'll butcher it in my description but allow me to introduce the "Continuous Loop System."
You can tag while soloing now! Now you can bring even more $hit on the wall with you as one fully loaded chest rig wasn't enough. Now you can resupply!
The basic idea is the tail end of your lead rope (not the anchored end) is tied into the top of your haul line. You have your tag rack [which can include lots of stuff beyond gear (food, water, beer, hauling device, anchor material, rope bags, etc.)] on the end of the lead line. Now when you're out of 000 Tiddlywhacks and you're totally gripped ,you can and slap a minitraxion on a good piece and yard up your tag rack (note-the minitrax was only chosen here for the irony of the original post being about avoiding toothed pulleys. insert Garda Hitch, spare grigri, etc. as desired).
Now you're resupplied, fed and watered, drunk and can restack the lead rope into the rope bag that came with the tag rack. You continue leading and when you reach the next belay, you can tag again and bring up your bomber Wall-o-Lette and hauling gear (ask me what a Wall-o-Lette is. I dare you! Don't really unless you're fully giving in to the Dorkside).
That way instead of carrying the weight of two ropes, all the gear you'll need for the entire pitch, all your anchor material, food and water and hauling gear on you from the get-go, you can tag it up as needed.
I like to pretend like my pig is my belayer/partner (it's often involved in the belay) and s/he can tag me up goodies as needed. Granted it never listens and only tags up what you put on the rack before you left but the idea of company is nice. It doesn't seem to have any benefit during sleeping hours (see the portaledge sex thread for help there).
Hope that helps or makes things much worse.
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majid_sabet
Aug 30, 2008, 12:48 AM
Post #89 of 93
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Ranger joe
I am very good at detecting players and I'll telll you, you got these RCers by their bal*s.see if you can play with them till tuesday or another three more pages.
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RangerJ
Aug 30, 2008, 1:02 AM
Post #90 of 93
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dyomad wrote: You should have run away while you still weren't a full-on aid dork. Now there's no turning back.
Oh gods.... what have I done. For the record though, I'm still a free climber... the aid will come when I get sponsored / crap donated to me / hand-me-downs scooped up like a chipmunk hoarding for winter
dyomad wrote: You can tag while soloing now! Now you can bring even more $hit on the wall with you as one fully loaded chest rig wasn't enough. The basic idea is the tail end of your lead rope (not the anchored end) is tied into the top of your haul line.
I may just redeem my dork / noobness with this statement. That, or utterly, utterly blow it once and for all:
Say I'm free climbing with a Wren Soloist (which, conveniently, I am). I need the bottom end of the rope anchored to the... anchor (as you mentioned). The top end needs to run free , so I'm storing it in a rope bag at the bottom anchor (to keep things neat and tidy). IF I tie the free end of this lead line into my haul line, then either
a) I'll be climbing with the entirety of the pig's weight on my crotch, or
b) the haul bag will still be secured into the anchor (and the only way to get the haul bag up to me at that point would be to pull until the anchor falls apart).
So how does one simply pull up the top end of the lead line to bring up the haul bag... unless you have
a) the haul bag positioned on some fifi hooks at the bottom anchor, awaiting freedom from the first tug from above (see different thread for this), or
b) a remote detonator that will unlock the pig's weight from the bottom anchor
Don't get me wrong, i'd totally go with the remote detonator... but that might get expensive having to repeat that at each pitch. Not to mention the new routes that will be created, or the amount of underwear I'm going to have to take on route.
dyomad wrote: ask me what a Wall-o-Lette is. I dare you!
Oh..... soooo tempted to say it....
dyomad wrote: I like to pretend like my pig is my belayer/partner (it's often involved in the belay)
I am counting on the pig being attached to the anchor of my lead line if nothing else than to act as a dynamic belay in the case I fall (that, coupled with a screamer)
Ahhhhh! Let the head shaking begin... gods but i do love the invisible cloak of anonymity that only something like the internet can provide
(This post was edited by RangerJ on Aug 30, 2008, 1:06 AM)
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RangerJ
Aug 30, 2008, 1:04 AM
Post #91 of 93
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majid_sabet wrote: Ranger joe I am very good at detecting players and I'll telll you, you got these RCers by their bal*s.see if you can play with them till tuesday or another three more pages.
The first three pages made me giggle, with one fall off the chair... but now i am laughing hysterically. And the funny thing is, it is totally not intentional...
P.S it's Ranger Jeff - the one and only.....
(aw crap, there goes the cloak of anonymity)
P.P.S i'm out climbing for 3 days, be back Monday night, looking forward to the inbox....
(This post was edited by RangerJ on Aug 30, 2008, 1:27 AM)
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flamer
Aug 30, 2008, 3:10 PM
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pmyche wrote: A lightweight alternative to the Gri-as-mule is Josh's patented adjustable daisy dock/release. Use your let-out line as backup on a pearabiner. When it's time to haul, turn that b/u into a quick half hitch (aka Münter) and hit the buckle button. Boom, lowering. No shoulder burn from messing with the M. mule.
You remember that!
Nice! I used to take such a beating for reccomending that to people...then they tried it (including pete) and were all, um yeah it works pretty good!
Funny and classic RC.com.
cheers!
josh
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dyomad
Aug 31, 2008, 10:21 PM
Post #93 of 93
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Something like
b) the haul bag will still be secured into the anchor (and the only way to get the haul bag up to me at that point would be to pull until the anchor falls apart).
...just without the anchor falling apart thing
You can do the fifi resting haulbag of doom trick, or you can anchor your haulbag traditionally and the haul line isn't weighted at all, except it's tied in down there somewhere so you can get back to your lower anchor.
For this situation try not to think of it as the haul line as it's used for much more than that.
While soloing, it's extra length tied into your lead line allows you to tag at the very end of the pitch. This means you can tag up your anchor kit and hauling gear. Then you use it to rap on to get back to your belay. Then you lower out the bag with the extra length. Now for the first time it becomes the "haul" line again.
I'm going to start another thread that will detail some of my Wall-o-lette thing and I'll try to include some "continuous loop" theory in there.
Kate
Glad you liked the grigri thing. It started out with me being too lazy to do the Munter-Mule tihng and it seemed like a good home for a spare grigri.
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