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Durin


Sep 26, 2008, 3:41 PM
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All-day routes: pack weight is horrible
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I've been climbing for about a year now, mostly indoors, but as of late I've started going to Yosemite a lot. I've done Snake Dike and Royal Arches, but last weekend I tried East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock and I found we were carrying too much stuff.

For two people:
6 liters of water
enough food for a day
2 fleece jackets
2 pairs of approach shoes

The leader obviously starts with most of the rack and shouldn't carry nearly as much as the second, but still, 6 liters = 12 pounds of water, so I carried 3 liters while leading. We had a couple other little items like headlamps, knife, emergency blanket, a couple other little essentials. The forecast was perfectly sunny so we didn't bring any sort of rain jacket or windbreaker, though I do have very compact ones.

It just seems to me that to be reasonably safe/prepared for an all-day route like east buttress of middle cathedral, or a harder one like steck salathe, each person needs approach shoes for the descent and a warm fleece jacket, but together with the food and water it's too heavy and bulky. Snake Dike and Royal Arches had such easy climbing that we just muscled through it with packs. Now that I'm getting into more technical climbs it just doesn't seem feasible.

Any suggestions? My climbing partner and I both have LaSportiva Exum Ridge approach shoes and Columbia fleece jackets. Are there lighter and less cumbersome alternatives?


(This post was edited by Durin on Sep 26, 2008, 3:43 PM)


GeneralBenson


Sep 26, 2008, 3:51 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Leave the rack? But seriously. I find that 3 liters of water in nalgenes feels like hell, but a full 3 liter camelback up tight against your back is barely noticeable. Have you considered that maybe you pack sucks. You'd be way better off with a small pack for each person. YOu can still have like leader pack/follower pack. But each person carries their own water, snacks and essentials. Besides, what good are things like headlamps, layers and food if they're in your seconds pack when you need them. Get a small pack, and a medium pack. Both people have water, food, rain jacket, headlamp. Second take things like shoes and fleeces. And fwiw, you can definitely get lighter/warmer fleeces than columbia; and a lightweight fleece/windbreaker combo would probably be warmer than just a midweight fleece; especially if it's windy.


shimanilami


Sep 26, 2008, 4:49 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Durin wrote:
Are there lighter and less cumbersome alternatives?

The Marmot Original Wind Shirt is the single, best piece of clothing I have ever owned. Get one.


sungam


Sep 26, 2008, 4:50 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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The only way you could go much lighter then that is maybe taking walshes and a pertex top instead of the fleece, but still, you got what you gotta carry, though 2l each might do.


climbingaggie03


Sep 26, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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To lighten/shrink this load here's what I'd do:

cut back on water and food if possible, don't be irresponsible, but if you're not a little hungry and thirsty by the time you get to the car, you're carrying too much food/water. Try to eat and drink as much as you can before you head up.

Check out some of the synthetic insulation jackets to cut weight and bulk, I love my mont-bell thermawrap parka, but also the mountain hardwear compressor is good.

I like sandals, more of a preference, but they are less bulky than shoes, Chaco makes great sandals with stealth rubber.

If you can't get your loads into a size weight your happy with, you could look into getting something like the Fish Atom smasher, or the cilo gear wally pack, that you could hand haul.


dingus


Sep 26, 2008, 5:09 PM
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Re: [climbingaggie03] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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OK, I've done that very route 15 or more times. Here is how I would approach this...

On moderate but longer routes each climber carries her own shit. That's the starting point. You'd be amazed what you can get rid of when YOU have to carry it all the time.

I would take 1 liter of water unless it was Military Hot, in which case I'd go to the Meadows, haha. I might take a 2nd bottle and drink it on the approach and at the base.

I would take a pack, either a small bullet pack or a fanny pack. For food? Apple, maybe a small single serving can of pineapple, that's about it.

I'd take a headlamp and a knife and of course we'd each have a lighter. Wind shirt or jacket if appropriate - that can go in the pack or wrap around the waist as needed. If its made right you can wrap it around your waist and use it as your fanny pack. But whatever.

Shoes I often just clip to the back of the harness, depending. Flip flops, sometimes just wear the shoes for the descent.

But we climb quickly (relatively speaking) and would expect to be up and off that route in about 6 hours tops, unless a big lineheld us up. I would tend to take just a *tad* mroe food and water if getting knighted was a distinct possibility. The farther away from the road the more tempted (in that possible benighted scenario) I'd be to have a space blanket along (one to share).

We use the 'drop and dragh' method for moderate chimneys, etc. where you prerig a sling on the pack connected to your harness with sufficient length to let the pack hang about a foot below your heels. You get to a tight spot just unbuckle it, drop and drag it up below you as you go.

That's my approach. I hate toting my partner's heavy bullshit. It also puts YOUR gear at YOUR fingertips when you need it. And you end up toting MUCH LESS WEIGHT too.

Not everyone likes this style.

DMT


hafilax


Sep 26, 2008, 5:13 PM
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Re: [GeneralBenson] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Did you drink all of that water? Prehydrate and don't carry so much. Can you find water on the descent?

For 11 pitches I would drink a litre before hand and carry a litre. I'd bring a gel and something for the stomach at the top. For a jacket I carry a nylon windbreaker if it's warm or a softshell if it's cooler. I clip my shoes, a stuffsack with everything in it and water bottle to my harness. I find packs annoying. We carry all our personal stuff since it's efficient to eat and drink while belaying the second and your jacket does you know good in the second's pack. That is unless the pitch is at the very limit which is rare on multipitch.

One way to carry less is to go faster and you can go faster if you carry less.


ryanb


Sep 26, 2008, 5:32 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Your inexperince means you need all that stuff in case the route takes you all day. Build up your confidence in your ability to keep up a good pace on at-your-limit climbing by doing short (1-4 pitches) multi pitches and things with easy retreats. Its key that these be harder then the long routes you wish to try...to minimize food and water weight you need to know you can lead and follow the pitches on long stuff quickly (max of an hour a pitch for both climbers even if it means resorting to french free) and aren't going to get bogged down and take all day trying to figure out the moves or work up the courage. Get your belay changeovers dialed too.


Unless it is very hot or cold shoot for something like a single 2+ liter camel back (or SMALL pack) carried by the 2nd with a few energy bars in it. Get an early (pre-dawn) start to avoid heat and be the first one on route so you don't need to wait for other parties. Clip your approach shoes to your harness. Consider if doing without or using flip flops is reasonable. Often it isn't and there isn't a hugely lighter alternative to approach shoes that i know of. Hydrate and eat well the night before and morning of and consider leaving a pack with extra food and water cached in a tree (varmots) at the base if there is a long hike in and out.

Clothing wise most fleeces suck. Would a long underwear top or two offer enough warmth? how about a long underwear top + compact shell to block the wind?
I do like tight fitting fleece hoody with thumb holes as they reduce the need for gloves or a hat:
http://www.mec.ca/...;bmUID=1222473220822
http://www.patagonia.com/...or=40071-746&ws=


If the weather, the length or the difficulty of the route convince you you need more then a small pack carried by the second either wait for better conditions or more fitness/confidence or make sure the route is easy enough to muscle through while carrying big packs. If neither is possible you are going to have to haul, have the second jug the hard pitches with a bigger pack or pre-cache food and water.


hafilax


Sep 26, 2008, 5:35 PM
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Re: [dingus] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
[snip]
But we climb quickly (relatively speaking) and would expect to be up and off that route in about 6 hours tops, unless a big lineheld us up. I would tend to take just a *tad* mroe food and water if getting knighted was a distinct possibility. The farther away from the road the more tempted (in that possible benighted scenario) I'd be to have a space blanket along (one to share).
[/snip]
I agree sir DMT. I guess if it were to happen anywhere Middle Cathedral would make the most sense.


salamanizer


Sep 26, 2008, 5:55 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Durin wrote:
I've been climbing for about a year now, mostly indoors, but as of late I've started going to Yosemite a lot. I've done Snake Dike and Royal Arches, but last weekend I tried East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock and I found we were carrying too much stuff.

For two people:
6 liters of water
enough food for a day
2 fleece jackets
2 pairs of approach shoes

The leader obviously starts with most of the rack and shouldn't carry nearly as much as the second, but still, 6 liters = 12 pounds of water, so I carried 3 liters while leading. We had a couple other little items like headlamps, knife, emergency blanket, a couple other little essentials. The forecast was perfectly sunny so we didn't bring any sort of rain jacket or windbreaker, though I do have very compact ones.

It just seems to me that to be reasonably safe/prepared for an all-day route like east buttress of middle cathedral, or a harder one like steck salathe, each person needs approach shoes for the descent and a warm fleece jacket, but together with the food and water it's too heavy and bulky. Snake Dike and Royal Arches had such easy climbing that we just muscled through it with packs. Now that I'm getting into more technical climbs it just doesn't seem feasible.

Any suggestions? My climbing partner and I both have LaSportiva Exum Ridge approach shoes and Columbia fleece jackets. Are there lighter and less cumbersome alternatives?


I think the problem lies within your abilitys. These routes may be a little over your head.

What I mean is. Yes, you're physically able to climb them, but not efficiently. You're skills arn't up to par, so you must suffer under a big load and long belays. You need to climb quicker. By doing so you won't need as much stuff, which will allow you to climb even faster. I know, easier said than done.

But there are some things you can do to climb faster. Like learning to safely and efficiently simul through easy sections.

Re-rack as you clean on a sling so you're nearly ready to go when you reach the belay.

Know which pitches you can run together and which ones you can't, and be willing to be flexible on the go. Just because it's not an "established" belay doesn't mean It can't become one for you.

Learn to be more efficient with your gear. Do you really need to place pro every 10ft on a 5.5 section... maybe? Do you need to sew up a perfect locker 5.9 hand crack? Things to consider.

3L of water for a day? You should be carrying no more than 32oz each for a route like E.B. Middle. Bring water and stash it at the base if you must but don't take it with you. Learn from those who have come before you. Al Steck and Salathe spent days on the Steck/Salathe with out watter and they lived. So can you.

Enough food for a day? How much is that?
A small package of gummy worms or something similar should suffice. Eat, Drink and be merry before and after the climb. Not during.

Two jackets.
Good call. Being prepared is important. However, why fleece? Why not a mid weight under layer (like Capaline from Patagucci sp?) and a ultra thin wind shirt. The smaller the better. It's a judgment call though. You won't always need insulation while sometimes you'll need alot.

Clip your approach shoes to the haul loop of your harness W/ a locker. If your harness doesn't have one, you have a sport weenie harness. Get a new one.

Dump the rest of your stuff besides a head lamp each. You absolutely do not need anything else.

When you're on a route like Steck/Salathe. Do not bring a backpack. Clip your shoes to your harness. Clip a water bottle to your harness and a cliff bar in your pocket. Put all your gear on a gear sling so you can move it from one side to the other quickly while in mid pitch. Rack very few things, nuts, nut tool some slings etc on your harness and only on your front gear loops. Try to rack them on the side you think will be facing out. You don't want that crap getting in the way.

....oh, and leave the helmets in the car on the wide.


lithiummetalman


Sep 26, 2008, 6:35 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Smaller pack or none at all.

For long all day use 1 or 2 packs btw the two of us depending on the season.

Contents in say Black diamond Bbee for cooler conditions

Nylon cycling windbreaker (the mountain bike versions seem to be very tough, breathe well and light)
midweight - heavyweight capilene longsleeve shirt (lighter and less bulkier than fleece)
Note: if it's really cold I'll pack a belay jacket and booties.
beanie
1-2 liters of water for both partners
purification tablets, knife, firestarter, tiny first aid kit, & bandanna (space blanket depending on the trip

For Arches (or moving quickly in general) we skip the pack, tiedthe jackets around our waist, wear a few thin.mid lairs (easier to regulate, strip and stow), attach 1L bottle to our harnesses, bandanna and beanie in my cargo pockets with the knife and lighter.

Shoes wise, have found that using water moccasins instead of clunkier approach shoes are not only lighter, but also lower in profile when carried; plus find that they can be warm and have excellent traction on the rock.

Hope this helps

Cheers

*Forgot to mention I always bring a few munchies!!! I like to eat!


(This post was edited by lithiummetalman on Sep 26, 2008, 6:57 PM)


summerprophet


Sep 26, 2008, 7:25 PM
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After struggling liker you did for years, I learned to lead with a pack.

Commit your partner to each carrying your own shit, and tell them this is the rack you need, if they want to add to it, they carry the extra.

For East Butt of Middle, I took 3 litres (I drink a LOT..... had heatstroke on that route before), 2 clif bars, a gel, long sleeve T, headlamp and a wind jacket. If you carry a selection of tied slings as part of your rack, it is unlikely you will ever need a knife.

Fleece is really bulky, as are water bottles.

ALSO, don't be scared off by the captain, I was skipped jumping on EB of El Cap for years, only to find it really wasn't that much harder than EB of Mid. (Although you really want water for that one...... it is a desert)


iamthewallress


Sep 26, 2008, 7:33 PM
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Tie a windbreaker around your waist. If you're super worried about weather or benighting and won't feel comfortable unless you're super prepared, get a tiny OR mylar bivy bag and dangly it off your harness.

Put your goodies in your shoes. Eat compact goodies that fit well in shoes. Bars, goo, cliff blocks, nuts, dry fruit, etc.

Bring 1L on route, and chug another on the approach if need be. Drink until it hurts before you leave the car and when you get back, and I promise you won't die. Bring practically weightless iodine tabs for stuff like Half Dome or if you're worried about the Royal Arches spring or if you think you'll have a mega-epic near water where you'll be passing a stream. Some of the stuff will get you drinkable H20 in 2 hours.

Don't bring a rack so large that you have 1 of each of everything 'just in case' at the end of the pitch.


Senate156


Sep 26, 2008, 7:56 PM
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Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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rather than trying to drastically change your load, why don't you start training with weights strapped on you at the gym. My gym will let me climb with a back pack on and inside it have two 12 lb sandbags. Actually that type of training has a lot of benefits other than just for multi-pitchers.


iamthewallress


Sep 27, 2008, 7:15 PM
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Re: [summerprophet] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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summerprophet wrote:
If you carry a selection of tied slings as part of your rack, it is unlikely you will ever need a knife.

Except when the hanging rap station is so crammed with white rotten sling that you can't get your freshies in there, and although you don't wish to trust your life to the existing crap, it's not yeilding to the force of your bare hands.

And, except when the end of the rope gets wedged behind a flake as you rap off and cutting the snag is the only way to have any length of rope w/ which to procede.

And, except when your hair or clothing gets sucked into your belay device, and you can't unweight it in order to free yourself.

Etc.

You can get a 0.5 oz knife in Cathey's Valley at the gas station for 99 cents. Worth an extra liter of water IMO.


summerprophet


Sep 27, 2008, 10:08 PM
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Re: [iamthewallress] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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iamthewallress wrote:
Except when the hanging rap station is so crammed with white rotten sling that you can't get your freshies in there, and although you don't wish to trust your life to the existing crap, it's not yeilding to the force of your bare hands.
Likely? No.
iamthewallress wrote:
And, except when the end of the rope gets wedged behind a flake as you rap off and cutting the snag is the only way to have any length of rope w/ which to procede.
Likely? No.

iamthewallress wrote:
And, except when your hair or clothing gets sucked into your belay device, and you can't unweight it in order to free yourself.

Again, I didn't say you would never need a knife, I just said that the likelyhood of needing one is low. Obviously everyone has to make that call for themselves, However, in my experience I have not required a knife in 18 years of climbing.

Obviously your situations may vary, perhaps you have long glamorous hair you wish to flow free in the wind whilst on rappel, perhaps all your gear consists of sewn slings with which to build retreat anchors from, or perhaps you climb in an area where you need to defend yourself from angry savages. To each their own.


erclimb


Sep 28, 2008, 3:34 AM
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drink a liter before you leave camp...i tend not to eat much when it's hot; food is much more important when it's cold (eating keeps you warm, but you should carry fatty stuff)...if you're carrying 3 liters each, then it's hot enough that food shouldn't be a priority; if it's cold, water isn't so much a priority...rather than a bulky fleece, a windproof cover is far more practical; these vary from shirts to jackets--read the weather reports; though i prefer to drink out of nalgenes, the bladder helps to conserve water (and keep it cooler) and does work better in a pack...shoes depend on the descent, chacos or cirques for anything sketchy...i love the bd beebee

most important of all, get your ass out of the tent early enough to eat a good breakfast and be the first ones on the route...an early start will reduce the amount of water you need; i simply don't understand climbers who think 7 or 8 is "early"

i also agree that you need more practice to increase efficiency


sungam


Sep 28, 2008, 7:53 AM
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Re: [summerprophet] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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I'd say the weight:usefullness ratio of a knife would say take it with you.


Partner rgold


Sep 28, 2008, 9:56 AM
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6 liters is 13 pounds of water. Two pair of approach shoes is another three pounds, maybe a bit more, so there's 16 pounds without food or clothing. Hydrate early and go with 1--2 liters, depending on heat, and descend in your climbing shoes (not the damn slippers you bought for sending V10, sparky) and you just cut ten or more pounds off your load. I've never been a fan of leading with a pack, and I've never found it necessary to carry more than a single bullet pack on any one-day summer rock climb.

If approach shoes are necessary for various reasons, including perhaps an inability to feel secure shod in anything that won't cause your toes to drop off in an hour, then these go on the harness, not in the pack. They seem to be less of a bother if you clip each one separately to a back harness loop rather than having the bulkier bundled pair on a single biner.



Also, if you are in an environment where sudden rain might be a problem, then having a light rain jacket tied around the waist will prevent the leader from becoming soaked and hypothermic waiting for the second to arrive with the pack. As for insulation, most fleeces are too heavy and bulky. I really like my Montbell Thermawrap jacket;



it is as warm or warmer than many fleeces, windproof, weighs less (two of them in the pack adds just a touch over a pound) and stuffs down to nothing. It's not a bivouac piece of course, and it does appear to be fragile---you certainly can't wear it for the Wide. But it stands up to the casual abrasion of most climbing and bushwacking remarkably well, though In high-abrasion country it needs to go under a softshell of some sort.


jackscoldsweat


Sep 28, 2008, 11:09 AM
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not sure if anyone else has suggested this already, as I haven't read the entire thread.

but, you might pick up a copy of Mark Twight's Extreme Alpinism. Despite the fact the book is directed toward alpine elitists, it'll teach you to look at everything you carry with the upmost scrutiny. Twight covers everything from nutrition and physical conditioning to gear modifications and mental mettle.

JCS


(This post was edited by jackscoldsweat on Sep 28, 2008, 11:16 AM)


byran


Sep 29, 2008, 5:43 PM
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Personally I'd ditch the food. I've had a few epics and never was hunger at the front of my mind, it's always the cold or dehydration I wish I could do something about. Pretty much the only thing I pack besides climbing gear is: approach shoes (light-weight tennies, not some clunky hiking boots), a headlamp, a light windbreaker (just for on the climb if it gets cold, not something I could bivy in), 2 liters of water max (1 liter if I expect it to be a cool day), and maybe a lighter.

You can photocopy the topo ahead of time so you don't have to carry the whole guidebook. You can also just bring a single "belay jacket" for you and your partner. Likewise, if it's a warm day and I'm packing a lot of water I'll ditch the jacket completely. Of course this would need to be adapted to your own needs. Obviously if you're a diabetic you can't just head up a 1600 foot route without any food, and some people need more water than me, others less. You just have to know you and your partners abilities, know how committing the route is, and be prepared to climb at a certain pace or bail if it's not going well.


sungam


Sep 29, 2008, 5:45 PM
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I would always have a chocky bar or two with me. Just in case.


salamanizer


Sep 29, 2008, 6:26 PM
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iamthewallress wrote:
Except when the hanging rap station is so crammed with white rotten sling that you can't get your freshies in there, and although you don't wish to trust your life to the existing crap, it's not yeilding to the force of your bare hands.

summerprophet wrote:
Likely? No.

Uh, bullshit. Happens to me all the time. Just happened to me Saturday on Glacier Pt Apron in Yosemite. We climbed Hoosier's Highway and every anchor was rusty 1/4 inchers crammed with webbing. Luckly most of it was so rotten I actually could rip it off with my hands.

iamthewallress wrote:
And, except when the end of the rope gets wedged behind a flake as you rap off and cutting the snag is the only way to have any length of rope w/ which to procede.

summerprophet wrote:
Likely? No.

Though it's never happened to me I usually see or hear about it happening once or twice a year to someone. So.... Likely enough.

iamthewallress wrote:
And, except when your hair or clothing gets sucked into your belay device, and you can't unweight it in order to free yourself.

summerprophet wrote:
Again, I didn't say you would never need a knife, I just said that the likelyhood of needing one is low. Obviously everyone has to make that call for themselves, However, in my experience I have not required a knife in 18 years of climbing.

Obviously your situations may vary, perhaps you have long glamorous hair you wish to flow free in the wind whilst on rappel, perhaps all your gear consists of sewn slings with which to build retreat anchors from, or perhaps you climb in an area where you need to defend yourself from angry savages. To each their own.

I find it hard to believe that in 18 years of climbing you have never found the need for a knife.

That tells me you've either never climbed anything other than the most well traveled trade routes at any given area, only climb sport routes or both.

Try stepping outside the box sometime.

...but bring a knife.


dingus


Sep 29, 2008, 8:39 PM
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Re: [salamanizer] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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salamanizer wrote:
iamthewallress wrote:
Except when the hanging rap station is so crammed with white rotten sling that you can't get your freshies in there, and although you don't wish to trust your life to the existing crap, it's not yeilding to the force of your bare hands.

summerprophet wrote:
Likely? No.

Uh, bullshit. Happens to me all the time. Just happened to me Saturday on Glacier Pt Apron in Yosemite. We climbed Hoosier's Highway and every anchor was rusty 1/4 inchers crammed with webbing. Luckly most of it was so rotten I actually could rip it off with my hands.

iamthewallress wrote:
And, except when the end of the rope gets wedged behind a flake as you rap off and cutting the snag is the only way to have any length of rope w/ which to procede.

summerprophet wrote:
Likely? No.

Though it's never happened to me I usually see or hear about it happening once or twice a year to someone. So.... Likely enough.

iamthewallress wrote:
And, except when your hair or clothing gets sucked into your belay device, and you can't unweight it in order to free yourself.

summerprophet wrote:
Again, I didn't say you would never need a knife, I just said that the likelyhood of needing one is low. Obviously everyone has to make that call for themselves, However, in my experience I have not required a knife in 18 years of climbing.

Obviously your situations may vary, perhaps you have long glamorous hair you wish to flow free in the wind whilst on rappel, perhaps all your gear consists of sewn slings with which to build retreat anchors from, or perhaps you climb in an area where you need to defend yourself from angry savages. To each their own.

I find it hard to believe that in 18 years of climbing you have never found the need for a knife.

That tells me you've either never climbed anything other than the most well traveled trade routes at any given area, only climb sport routes or both.

Try stepping outside the box sometime.

...but bring a knife.

I totally agree with the notion of each climber ALWAYS having a harness knife handy.

I usually go with a tiny Gerber or Swiss Army; single blade, one hand open, 10 - 15 bucks tops.

Goes in zipper bottom of chalk bag, on nut tool biner or in zipper pocket.

DMT


btreanor


Sep 29, 2008, 8:55 PM
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Posts: 121

Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Lots of good info here from folks link Dingus, but too many people (not all) are avoiding the question. Telling the OP to go faster on the East Butt of Middle is useful, but not what he or she was asking. For lots of us that route is a quick half day or less, so ask yourself what you would bring on a route that would be a really full day--perhaps into the night, perhaps a forced bivy--for you (whatever that is... valley to valley, NIAD, RNWF, etc.).

Now, my own answer is highly contingent on many things. How hot is it? Is there a possibility of precipitation (what percentage? what kind?)? How likely am I to finish in the daylight? In a push? Etc., etc. That being said, last weekend in Yosemite, for an all-day route I would have taken something like: 1 liter of water, a few bars shoved in my pockets, a light jacket (I'll second the Marmot Driclime windshirt--perfection), approach shoes (each climber clips 'em to the harness). If I think night is even a possibility, I add a headlamp and an extra bar of food. If I think night is a probability and, therefore, bivy a possibility, I'll add a beanie, wear a long sleeve shirt to go with the Driclime at night, shove a lighter in my pocket. Stuff your face with food and water before the route, as others have said.

I might (and have) go heavier or lighter than this depending on likely condition, how fit I am feeling, how bold I am feeling, how lucky I am feeling, who I am climbing with, etc.

So, after a long post, I would suggest: (1) less water, (2) light and compact food, (3) approach shoes on your harness, (4) lighter jackets around your waist or in a light pack (e.g., Cilogear 20L).

Have fun. You'll keep figuring out better and better systems. I'm still learning stuff after 25 years.

Brian

EDIT: Of course there other other light items that others have suggested as well. I always have a small knife on my harness, for example. And because I am pasty and Irish, I often carry a small tube of sun cream to reapply mid-day. The above comments were just to hit the bigger items the OP seemed concerned with.


(This post was edited by btreanor on Sep 29, 2008, 9:00 PM)

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