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fnc6884
Sep 26, 2008, 4:36 PM
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Anyone have any experience using a SINGLE strand 60 or 70m twin or double/twin dual rope for mixed climbing like this:
-Bend the rope and use it as a 30m to 35m length rope for pitched climbs (5.2 to 5.6 max) with no possibility for an easy bailout
-and then use it as a rappel rope to ascend the same pitches.
-Use a single strand for travesing, snow, 5th class scrambling with low impact falls and forces
-Double it up for more vertical endeavors and higher chances of stronger falls
-very lightweight set-up with a moderate disadvantage of not being able to bailout a pitch easily (yet one maybe could still bailout if they tie the loop side on to the leader...the leader would jsut have to be concious and stable to protect themselves, untie, and set up a repell for a bailout)
My thought is that is allows you to shed alot of weight and still tackle easy (aka low grade mixed climbing routes)
Feel free to shoot me down, say I'm crazy, offer suggestions (I haven't tried this), etc
I'm new to mixed climbing and I'm jsut starting to get into mountaineering. Other than that I trad climbg the baby stuff (5.6-5.7) and top rope around 5.9.
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dingus
Sep 26, 2008, 4:48 PM
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Yes. I've used a 165' half rope this way as well as a 300' half rope a friend had.
We'd use it single for snow climbing and easy rock simul-climbing, glacier crossings etc. and then double it up if and when the pitches became hard.
Worked OK. Its unnerving when crossing a lot of sharp rocks, I will admit.
DMT
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fnc6884
Sep 26, 2008, 4:55 PM
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Wow, that was a quick response. I was particular looking at a monster 7.8 metolious rope. It is rated for a twin/double set up. I like the thought that it has been certified on sharp fall factor of a double rope and can take a fall single stranded, plus it is 38gr a meter. I wouldn;t want to use it as a double for anything really vertical, but in a pinch I like the safety net.
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irregularpanda
Sep 26, 2008, 4:57 PM
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fnc6884 wrote: -Bend the rope and use it as a 30m to 35m length rope for pitched climbs (5.2 to 5.6 max) with no possibility for an easy bailout -Use a single strand for travesing, snow, 5th class scrambling with low impact falls and forces -Double it up for more vertical endeavors and higher chances of stronger falls My thought is that is allows you to shed alot of weight and still tackle easy (aka low grade mixed climbing routes)
I have too. But only on easy (simul-climbing) terrain. Except in one place, falls were nearly impossible. It lowered the weight, yes, but the climb I was on also had 3 pitches of 5.9, so we still had the second twin with us to lead these, and then to do pack hauls afterwards.
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dingus
Sep 26, 2008, 5:00 PM
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One thing to consider - the typical belay device setup like and ATC and a biner might not offer enough friction to give a good catch. Might consider using two biners for extra friction.
Let's see:
Here's an 8.1 being put to use
No exztra biner there.
DMT
DMT
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irregularpanda
Sep 26, 2008, 5:01 PM
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fnc6884 wrote: Wow, that was a quick response. I was particular looking at a monster 7.8 metolious rope. It is rated for a twin/double set up. I like the thought that it has been certified on sharp fall factor of a double rope and can take a fall single stranded, plus it is 38gr a meter. I wouldn;t want to use it as a double for anything really vertical, but in a pinch I like the safety net.
I just bought a monster rope, and I wouldn't do it again, just so you know.
Here's why
1. not as durable as a mammut or sterling
2. sheath slippage when rappelling with an autoblock or prussik
Good things about the monster rope.
1 looks good on paper
2 light weight
3 price
4 sonds durable, but its not, in my opinion
I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it, I'm just saying I won't buy another one.
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ryanb
Sep 26, 2008, 5:28 PM
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Which monster did you get? I have the 9.8 and it is fuzzing quick but seems fine otherwise (was cheap for a 70 and seems like it will last 1-2 years of heavy use).
A friend took a 60 footer on a single twin/half rope when he managed to get off route into some loose steep terrain in the cascades. If you use these systems a lot, eventually you are going to test them so go with something you are comfortable with.
I like the idea of climbing on a folded half but, unless the climb is mostly simuled with a couple of short steep sections it seems you're are going to make better time with a system you are comfortable doing long pitches with (30 m pitches could mean twice as many belays). If you don't allready have halfs and are looking to buy a rope, a thick half or single (or combo like the Beal Joker) in the 8.9-9.4 range might make more sense in terms of versatility then the thin metolius.
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creemore
Sep 26, 2008, 5:29 PM
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Do it! with a double/twin certified rope. I use the PMI Verglas 8.1 for this use.
It's a great light set-up. Good for short roping and simul-climbing. Then, like you said, double it up and use in regular double fashion when you need to pitch it out.
If you need to rap longer pitches, you can still bring the other half rope and just leave it in the pack on the way up. Really speeds things up on short pitches in the Alpine.
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fnc6884
Sep 26, 2008, 6:10 PM
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Dang, I go off and teach a class fo an hour and I come back and already there are more responses (and good responses).
Yeah, I've heard monster ropes fuzz and people seem to not like them (thanks for letting me know, that cast the last vote for me NOT getting them)
Anyone know about using a beal ice line in a twin set up? I don't understand why the Beal website doesn't have them shown to be certified for twin use. I mean, there fall factor is the lowest out of all half ropes (inlcuding dual certified twin/half ropes)..so I don;t knwo why it wouldn't be a decent low impact twin rope.
Any other suggestions of rope given what I am looking for?
Anyone know where I can pick up 80m and up double/twin rope? (thinking about it) I heard there are even some bi-color duel certified ropes, which would be great if I bend it and set it up as a doubles system.
Lastly, just so everyone know where I am coming from: I'm looking for a set up in which I'm mixed climbing, with maybe a short 5.2-5.6 climb and I like haveing the possiblity of reppeling and getting off the rock quick..when the shit hits the ceiling
BTW I use a ATC guide
Would I be better off with a 30m 9.2mm nano or 8.9 serenity single rope? Keeps the system simplier and lighter. But I Lose the ability to vary my impact forces (single strand and double strand)...plus the ability to do full length reppels.
Any further thoughts? (keep them coming, I'm really enjoying the responses so far)
BTW: an example of a climb I'm looking at: Flattop Mountain - Ptarmigan Fingers..where I can walk off any route I did there and some other alpine climbs around that technical level (with and without the possiblity of walking off).
Thanks again guys
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irregularpanda
Sep 26, 2008, 6:34 PM
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Those are a lot of good, well thought out questions.
I would say shoot an e-mail to sterlingjim, he is a rope expert on this site for sure.
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sterlingjim
Sep 26, 2008, 6:39 PM
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I apologize if someone already addressed this but it was mentioned that the rope (Monster) was sharp edge certified/rated. It is not and in fact no rope is. That standard was suspended about 3 years ago for several reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it does not represent in any way how a rope is cut in the real world.
To answer the original question: it is fine to use half and twin ropes in the manner described as long as they are used in the appropriate mode - half or twin.
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dps
Sep 28, 2008, 10:49 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: fnc6884 wrote: Wow, that was a quick response. I was particular looking at a monster 7.8 metolious rope. It is rated for a twin/double set up. I like the thought that it has been certified on sharp fall factor of a double rope and can take a fall single stranded, plus it is 38gr a meter. I wouldn;t want to use it as a double for anything really vertical, but in a pinch I like the safety net. I just bought a monster rope, and I wouldn't do it again, just so you know. Here's why 1. not as durable as a mammut or sterling 2. sheath slippage when rappelling with an autoblock or prussik Good things about the monster rope. 1 looks good on paper 2 light weight 3 price 4 sonds durable, but its not, in my opinion I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it, I'm just saying I won't buy another one.
I have the 7.8 mm Monster ropes and I have had an AWESOME experience with them. I have no clue how the single cords are.
Pros:
1) Dry-coating is the best I've used (out of Beal, Mammut, Edelweiss, and Metolius)
2) Very durable for the size. I've used these ropes for a full ice season, an international trip, and an alpine rock season. There is one fuzzy spot on one rope.
3) Middle marks are very easy to see and seem to be lasting
Cons:
1) They tangle like crazy
2) Running them as doubles is scary as hell because they are so skinny
I haven't had any sheath slippage. These ropes have far surpassed my lifetime expectations because of how skinny they are.
I have two partners who have the same ropes and have similar opinions as me. We all love these cords!
edit: I've seen more sheath slippage with Beal Ice Lines than any other skinny cord out there. It's a bit ridiculous.
(This post was edited by dps on Sep 28, 2008, 10:51 PM)
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