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angry
Oct 10, 2008, 4:12 PM
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So I had every intention of getting some G14's. I still might.
I'm a bit leary to get something that soon won't have available spare parts though.
So I've experienced and heard from everyone that BD's secondary points are too far back. Otherwise I'd just get the Cyborg. That and they seem to change their models all the time and no longer support the old one way too often.
Charlet just seems too damn French.
So, what's the best non-grivel G14 substitute out there? Or offer me your G14's with a bag of parts.
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AlexCV
Oct 10, 2008, 4:23 PM
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The new petzl/charlet sarken, 950g. 960g with newmatic style bindings.
Oh yeah, too french. Spare charlet front halves are 100$ or so for the pair.
For another take on french: http://www.mec.ca/...;bmUID=1223656433727
Harder to locate, but the C14 from cassin are good value. Spare parts are probably a pain to get.
I expect grivel will still be available in the states, just not at as many shops.
(This post was edited by AlexCV on Oct 10, 2008, 4:40 PM)
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rhyang
Oct 10, 2008, 5:34 PM
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No experience climbing with the Cyborgs (only fondling  ), but I suspect that the comment about BD secondary points relates to the earlier model, the Bionic.
C14 frontpoints were available from Walkhigh Mountaineering in the UK last time I checked, which might be spendy with shipping & exchange rate.
Mountaineer.com has a note on their website saying they will continue to stock Grivel parts.
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anykineclimb
Oct 10, 2008, 5:52 PM
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I just got some G14s to replace my Darts. I felt the secondary points on the darts were "weird"; a bit back I guess. I also wanted more of an all around crampon.
I'm not too concerned about parts availablity. I figure I can find them somewhere like ebay.
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gargrantuan
Oct 10, 2008, 6:17 PM
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i had G14's and thought they were great until i bought a pair of BD Sabretooths which IMO are the best WI and alpine crampon on the market. the secondary points are much much better than the grivels.
in the words of will gadd "i implore any ice climber to try climbing on horizontal points, you won't go back."
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tavs
Oct 12, 2008, 3:39 AM
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rhyang wrote: No experience climbing with the Cyborgs (only fondling ), but I suspect that the comment about BD secondary points relates to the earlier model, the Bionic. C14 frontpoints were available from Walkhigh Mountaineering in the UK last time I checked, which might be spendy with shipping & exchange rate. Mountaineer.com has a note on their website saying they will continue to stock Grivel parts.
I have to echo this. I've got the Cyborgs and have no problems with the location of the secondary points. They're plenty long enough and far forward enough for me.
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adamtd
Oct 14, 2008, 12:26 AM
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The secondary points on the cyborg have been greatly improved upon since the Bionic. I climb in the bionics now, and I still like them. The cyborgs are nicer, and certainly a step up from the bionics, but they've performed well on WI and AI. I even took them to Nepal for mixed alpine climbing.
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yodadave
Oct 14, 2008, 11:04 AM
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DMM Terminator
freaking awesome
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roddack
Oct 15, 2008, 12:00 AM
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no problem with the Cyborgs, I used the Sarkens prior and liked them for all but NE 4+ ice and up. The anti- bots/ snow plates are pretty good and to me this is the main concern with any crampon.
I have found that the best crampon is the one you buy and learn the style. That being said I still find the routes and time to dust off my old foot fangs, so take this with a grain of salt.
As far as the second tooth, use them enough, they'll get closer, and you'll will be stronger.
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swaghole
Oct 26, 2008, 11:20 PM
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yodadave wrote: DMM Terminator freaking awesome
Just my 0.02$
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granite_grrl
Oct 27, 2008, 11:23 AM
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I started with a pair of used Bionics, the secondary points were truely horrible. When I got my Cyborgs I couldn't believe the difference. Wow, these are what secondary points are for, I thought.
But Nathan has tried my Cyborgs and has not been impressed with them. He found them less stable. But I'm not sure if this is because he went from Sabertooth's to Cyborgs, or if its because I went from Bionics to Cyborgs.
My point: you might not be satisfied with them depending on what you're going from, despite all the praise the Cyborgs are getting in this tread. They're a pretty common set of crampons and easy to adjust. Any chance you can borrow a set from someone and give them a try first?
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the_climber
Oct 27, 2008, 5:34 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: I started with a pair of used Bionics, the secondary points were truely horrible. When I got my Cyborgs I couldn't believe the difference. Wow, these are what secondary points are for, I thought. But Nathan has tried my Cyborgs and has not been impressed with them. He found them less stable. But I'm not sure if this is because he went from Sabertooth's to Cyborgs, or if its because I went from Bionics to Cyborgs. My point: you might not be satisfied with them depending on what you're going from, despite all the praise the Cyborgs are getting in this tread. They're a pretty common set of crampons and easy to adjust. Any chance you can borrow a set from someone and give them a try first?
Meh, the Cyborgs are a G14 knock off that aren't as good as the G14's. I'll agree with Nathan that the Sabretooth's are more stable than the Cyborgs.
For Ice climbing a lot of it does come down to your personal climbing style... which in turn has been partly determined by what ice gear you have previously used. All crampons work, all have their pros and cons. Horizontal points or all to oft overlooked by water ice climbers and are what most should be on. That said there are still a lot of benefits to using hooded vertical points, but these are very dependent on ice conditions.
My honest oppinion is that any ice climber should try horizontal points for at least 10 days of climbing. They will serve most climbers more consistantly over a variety of conditions than vertical points.
Whatever 'poon you end up with do yourself a favour and screw getting the wire toe bail. New-matic bindings are the way to go; more secure, better feedback, no chance of blowing a toe bail, faster to put on, simply better.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Dec 19, 2008, 9:12 PM)
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altelis
Oct 27, 2008, 9:09 PM
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the_climber wrote: ....Whatever 'poon you end up with do yourself a favour and screw getting the wire toe bail. New-matic bindings are the way to go; more secure, better feedback, no chance of blowing a heal bail, faster to put on, simply better.
yea, i found this out AFTER i bought my g-14s. had a poon pop mid pitch, way above the last screw. granted it was easy climbing, but also very alpine ice (read thin, detached in spots, and def water not too far away....) scary experience
no way to change is there (short of buying new poons)?
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the_climber
Oct 27, 2008, 9:19 PM
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altelis wrote: no way to change is there (short of buying new poons)?
On your cramp-o-matic G14's it is possible to set up somewhat of a hybrid toe bail by using some webbing/cord/whatever you can piece together. Simple way would be to rig it through the adjustment holes for your toe bail and strap them up as per newmatic bindings, but to get a proper binding of that sort you would be looking at a new set of 'poons.
I was seriously skeptical of the newmatics when I first got them, but I really wanted G14's and that was all anyone had in stock at the time. Turned out to be the best crampon purchase I ever made. We're going to be fabing up a new-matic toebail for my partners DMM Terms, I'll let you know how it turns out and if the same full retrofit could be adapted for your 'poons.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Oct 27, 2008, 9:21 PM)
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altelis
Oct 27, 2008, 9:27 PM
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I would LOVE to know how that turns out....
please keep me posted, and (somewhat selfishly) GOOD LUCK
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