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jdefazio
Oct 13, 2008, 7:27 PM
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Cross-post into Regional from I&A:
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http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=109574
Details are sketchy, but according to friends who were on-scene, the climber rappelled off the end of his rope. Apparently he suffered head injuries and was having difficulty breathing, but was lucid.
Does anyone know this young man's condition?
My best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.
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edited for spelling
(This post was edited by jdefazio on Oct 15, 2008, 12:22 PM)
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adatesman
Oct 13, 2008, 7:58 PM
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First, I hope the climber is ok. I'd be curious about details, as Birdsboro certainly isn't the sort of place where one can easily rap off the end of their rope, unless they were over on the new stuff on the other side of the quarry.
Second, what's with the sudden spate of accidents around here? In the past week there's been deaths at both the Gunks and Seneca and now another injury? Must be the lunar cycle or something....
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jdefazio
Oct 13, 2008, 8:19 PM
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adatesman wrote: First, I hope the climber is ok. I'd be curious about details, as Birdsboro certainly isn't the sort of place where one can easily rap off the end of their rope, unless they were over on the new stuff on the other side of the quarry.
Agreed. I sincerely hope the guy is OK.
This incident occured in the one of the main areas, so I'm puzzled how this could occur, i.e. on short single-pitch routes within clear sight of the ground and, hence, the ends of one's rope.
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la_rouche
Oct 13, 2008, 8:32 PM
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Hope the guy is OK. My first thought, too, was that it could have happened on the "giant wall" since there really aren't many long rappells there. Unfortunately, this could be another example of why you should always tie your knots.
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mojomonkey
Oct 13, 2008, 9:33 PM
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Perhaps it was an error cleaning a route, and they were never actually on rappel?
Hope the guy ends up OK.
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jdefazio
Oct 14, 2008, 12:03 AM
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I'm told (by secondhand account from those on the scene after the accident, so I'm are certainly speculating here) that he had been taken off belay to clean the anchors, and had already rapped some distance prior to falling. I can only assume, then, that it was not a case of miscommunication between the two partners in terms of "lower me" vs. "I'm rappelling".
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GeneralZon
Oct 14, 2008, 7:00 PM
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I am very good friends (and climbing partner) with the climber that got injured. He is a very competent climber who is by no means new to the sport.
Since I was not climbing with him at the time of his injury, I don't feel that it is my place to recount the event. I will let him or his climbing partner at the time fill in the details on how the accident occurred when they are ready.
I can however report that he is in stable/good condition with a few minor injuries (considering decking from 15-20'); broken ribs, dislocated finger, and lacerations to his head requiring a few staples. When I talk to him next I will ask if it is good for me to fill in the details for everyone. For now, lets just say that there were multiple human (not equipment) that caused the event.
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jdefazio
Oct 14, 2008, 7:12 PM
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Very glad to hear that. Please relay to him the best wishes of everyone in here.
OT, but what is with doctors using staples instead of stiches? I, too, had about 12 put in my head a few years ago: "chk chk chk - there you go, that'll be 800 dollars please". Is that the skill level they teach to in med school these days? Leaves one hell of a train track scar as well.
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arthurdeko
Oct 15, 2008, 4:18 AM
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I was the climber who decked this weekend.
Thank you, everyone, for your concern. More importantly, thank you to everyone at the crag who came to my assistance.
The account of my injuries in the previous post is accurate(3 broken rips, dislocated finger, scrape on head). I was discharged from the hospital this afternoon and I should recover fully within a few weeks.
To clear up any rumors. I was cleaning the route immediately to the left of Zorro. I'd removed our gear from the bolts at the top of the climb and had pulled some rope through the bolts before going on rappel. But I was distracted for a moment, stopped feeding the rope, and started rappelling, forgetting that I'd only fed about 10-15 feet of rope. About half way down the wall, I felt the rope start to run very quickly through the ATC. Before I could react, I was on the ground gasping for breath wondering how my finger got bent like a "Z".
The newspaper must have assumed that I'd fallen from the top of the climb as it was about 30 feet high. If I'd fallen from that far and landed the way I did, I wouldn't be writing this. The distance was more like 10-15 feet.
Aside from the technical errors of not feeding enough rope to reach the bottom of the cliff and not tying a knot in the end of the rope, the more noteworthy error was the fact that both my belayer and myself neglected to work as a team. For a number of reasons we'd become complacent and were thinking more about packing up and leaving than safely cleaning the climb.
However, as the ER doctor applied 4 staples to my scalp without any sort of anaesthesia, he drove home the idea that under no circumstances should expediency take precedence over safety.
In addition, I don't blame my belayer for allowing me to rappel without enough rope. I'm sure that he thought I knew what I was doing and didn't expect me to make such an obvious mistake so he just started packing up to go. I'd made that assumption, too. Unfortunately, we all make mistakes, particularly when we're tired(and rock climbing tends to have that effect).
My belayer and I have had a chance to talk about this experience and we both agree that belaying for someone means that you are protecting the climber even when they are "off belay" and the climb isn't over until everyone is safe on the ground. Also, climbers should be double checking the belayer as well.
Catching a fall doesn't necessarily require a belay device, sometimes it means catching a mistake that would result in a fall and making sure that your partner corrects the mistake.
Anyway, I hope my accident can serve as a learning opportunity for others. I've certainly learned my lesson, but holy shnikeys, it hurt a lot!
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majid_sabet
Oct 15, 2008, 4:47 AM
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was this a double rope rap via ATC and one side came out 15 feet short?
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Oct 15, 2008, 4:58 AM)
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arthurdeko
Oct 15, 2008, 3:38 PM
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Yep, that's the idea.
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GeneralZon
Oct 15, 2008, 3:44 PM
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Minus the Bonsai anchor.
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altelis
Oct 15, 2008, 4:32 PM
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TOTAL OFF TOPIC RANT:
jdefazio wrote: OT, but what is with doctors using staples instead of stiches? I, too, had about 12 put in my head a few years ago: "chk chk chk - there you go, that'll be 800 dollars please". Is that the skill level they teach to in med school these days? Leaves one hell of a train track scar as well.
glad ignorance runs rampant.
i suppose, yes, staples could be a clue as to a lazy physician
but so is not asking questions
staples, sutures, and adhesives aren't simply equivalent methods for closing wounds. they all have their own pros and minuses.
things to consider: type of wound (jagged not good for staples, long better for staples), location of wound (is constant articulation a problem?), amount of swelling expected (knees SWELL versus some other areas of the body)
WELL placed staples a) should leave no worse or better scarring than sutures, b) take a LOT of skill to place
sure, from the outside it may look like suturing is a terribly complicated art (though as a climber you'd probably find it quite easy compared to a lot of docs-in-training) and stapling is a mindless pulling of a trigger. however, placing staples WELL in a way to promote quick wound healing is just as much an art as suturing. (maybe not QUITE- but definitely closer to suturing than getting 10 pages of paper to stay together).
staples ARE more expensive than suturing- but you are paying for the benefits (holds up to swelling well, less prone to infection both due to shallow placement compared to sutures and intrinsic aspect of the material....)
if you are so worried about these things why didn't you ask your health care provider- take a little self responsibility.
sure, if its a true emergency situation you probably can't discuss before hand. but why not ask your physician after the fact WHY they made choice they did if you were so bothered. i've been in plenty "urgent care" situations (as an emt) where the patient and physician were able to DISCUSS the pros and cons of a certain procedure and voiced their preference. the patient preference wasn't always able to be followed (due solely to the pressing MEDICAL facts) but they were at least voiced.
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jdefazio
Oct 15, 2008, 5:22 PM
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altelis wrote: TOTAL OFF TOPIC RANT: jdefazio wrote: OT, but what is with doctors using staples instead of stiches? I, too, had about 12 put in my head a few years ago: "chk chk chk - there you go, that'll be 800 dollars please". Is that the skill level they teach to in med school these days? Leaves one hell of a train track scar as well. glad ignorance runs rampant. ..rant rant rant..
Oh jesustittiefuckingchrist. What, do we have to put disclaimers on sarcasm now? Especially being off topic and after we know the climber is OK. Relax.
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1959
Oct 15, 2008, 5:56 PM
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The dude was on a less than 30' line....that's 30 feet to the anchors...MAX. He rapped off the end?!? of his line!?!
Apparently he's fine, gashed his eye and cracked 2 ribs. Someone got spooked and called emergency services because he couldn't "walk" out to his car.
I wasn't there but that's what I got.
Analysis: Gym climbing hardman got sandbagged by rap maneuver....wept like a pre-schooler after seeing the drippy red stuff, the sobbing hurt, so he gasped for mommy to make it all better again.
Result: FIASCO....
Empathy: Light
Sympathy: None
Lesson: Some people ain't supposed to climb
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GeneralZon
Oct 15, 2008, 6:17 PM
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1959 wrote: The dude was on a less than 30' line....that's 30 feet to the anchors...MAX. He rapped off the end?!? of his line!?! Apparently he's fine, gashed his eye and cracked 2 ribs. Someone got spooked and called emergency services because he couldn't "walk" out to his car. I wasn't there but that's what I got. Analysis: Gym climbing hardman got sandbagged by rap maneuver....wept like a pre-schooler after seeing the drippy red stuff, the sobbing hurt, so he gasped for mommy to make it all better again. Result: FIASCO.... Empathy: Light Sympathy: None Lesson: Some people ain't supposed to climb
You sir, are very much misinformed. Get the facts straight and then talk your trash. Read the previous posts and get a clue. Nice first post.
If you want to have this discussion in person, PM me I will be more than happy to learn you.
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shockabuku
Oct 15, 2008, 6:30 PM
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arthurdeko wrote: However, as the ER doctor applied 4 staples to my scalp without any sort of anaesthesia, he drove home the idea that under no circumstances should expediency take precedence over safety.
Thanks for the new sig. Hope you heal well.
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jdefazio
Oct 15, 2008, 6:36 PM
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shockabuku wrote: arthurdeko wrote: However, as the ER doctor applied 4 staples to my scalp without any sort of anaesthesia, he drove home the idea that under no circumstances should expediency take precedence over safety. Thanks for the new sig. Hope you heal well.
Literally!
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knieveltech
Oct 15, 2008, 6:52 PM
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1959 wrote: The dude was on a less than 30' line....that's 30 feet to the anchors...MAX. He rapped off the end?!? of his line!?! Apparently he's fine, gashed his eye and cracked 2 ribs. Someone got spooked and called emergency services because he couldn't "walk" out to his car. I wasn't there but that's what I got. Analysis: Gym climbing hardman got sandbagged by rap maneuver....wept like a pre-schooler after seeing the drippy red stuff, the sobbing hurt, so he gasped for mommy to make it all better again. Result: FIASCO.... Empathy: Light Sympathy: None Lesson: Some people ain't supposed to climb
It's instructive to note that someone created a troll account specifically to post this. Gotta love the random anonymous cowards out there.
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crimpandgo
Oct 15, 2008, 6:53 PM
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1959 wrote: The dude was on a less than 30' line....that's 30 feet to the anchors...MAX. He rapped off the end?!? of his line!?! Apparently he's fine, gashed his eye and cracked 2 ribs. Someone got spooked and called emergency services because he couldn't "walk" out to his car. I wasn't there but that's what I got. Analysis: Gym climbing hardman got sandbagged by rap maneuver....wept like a pre-schooler after seeing the drippy red stuff, the sobbing hurt, so he gasped for mommy to make it all better again. Result: FIASCO.... Empathy: Light Sympathy: None Lesson: Some people ain't supposed to climb
Feeling like a Richard today?? 
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1959
Oct 15, 2008, 7:40 PM
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REALITY CHECK
This week East Coast....
Died....guy fell off 5.3 at the Gunks NY
Died....49 yr old female Doctor blew #4BD micronut and decked 30' up a totally protectable 5.9G at Seneca WV
Died....24 yr old young woman unanchored on a 100% safe ridge walk near Seneca WV
Decked....guy rapped off the end of his rope on a 30' line at Birdsboro
Wake up....we are not talking about slipping on the sidewalk. If you are offended by the truth, not the facts, the truth....gravity is NOT your FRIEND....then stay on the couch and watch sports.
And to those who think name calling is rational discussion....grow up a little.
Look friends....climbing is inherently dangerous. Access to crags is a privilege. Injury and death are no-joke, and adverse publicity about our beloved activity results in crag closures.
Being responsible is not just about self. We are a community, what one foolish person does affects us all.
Let's not sugar coat the truth, you DO have a responsibility to the community.
Yes I am new to this forum...whoop-de-do
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wormly81
Oct 15, 2008, 8:07 PM
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1959 wrote: REALITY CHECK This week East Coast.... Died....guy fell off 5.3 at the Gunks NY Died....49 yr old female Doctor blew #4BD micronut and decked 30' up a totally protectable 5.9G at Seneca WV Died....24 yr old young woman unanchored on a 100% safe ridge walk near Seneca WV Decked....guy rapped off the end of his rope on a 30' line at Birdsboro Wake up....we are not talking about slipping on the sidewalk. If you are offended by the truth, not the facts, the truth....gravity is NOT your FRIEND....then stay on the couch and watch sports. And to those who think name calling is rational discussion....grow up a little. Look friends....climbing is inherently dangerous. Access to crags is a privilege. Injury and death are no-joke, and adverse publicity about our beloved activity results in crag closures. Being responsible is not just about self. We are a community, what one foolish person does affects us all. Let's not sugar coat the truth, you DO have a responsibility to the community. Yes I am new to this forum...whoop-de-do
Maybe not the most appropriate place for this... or sensitive choice of words concerning peoples lives that were lost... but your main point is spot on and you are right that there are a ton of people who have no respect for danger or the consequences of fucking up. Especially concerning is the ambivilence that certain people have for making minor mistakes. In climbing there are no minor mistakes; only major ones that you luckily survived.
Oh and you must have missed the broken ankle in the dacks that led to a helicopter rescue and a 65 footer at the RRG (not really east coast). Bad bad bad.
(This post was edited by wormly81 on Oct 15, 2008, 8:16 PM)
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GeneralZon
Oct 15, 2008, 8:17 PM
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1959 wrote: The dude was on a less than 30' line....that's 30 feet to the anchors...MAX. He rapped off the end?!? of his line!?! Apparently he's fine, gashed his eye and cracked 2 ribs. Someone got spooked and called emergency services because he couldn't "walk" out to his car. I wasn't there but that's what I got. Analysis: Gym climbing hardman got sandbagged by rap maneuver....wept like a pre-schooler after seeing the drippy red stuff, the sobbing hurt, so he gasped for mommy to make it all better again. Result: FIASCO.... Empathy: Light Sympathy: None Lesson: Some people ain't supposed to climb
Here is a fact for you Internet tough guy... you are wrong, again.
Fact is your earlier post was not correct and anybody that was at the quarry that day and saw the accident provided you with the wrong information. At least understand what is being discussed before you give your uninformed opinion. Anyway, after taking a fall from above your height, it is standard protocol to immobilize the victim and stabilize their spine. The jackass that thought he should suck it up and walk out was exactly that a JACKASS.
May you be fortunate enough not to make any mistakes for the rest of your life and be accident free. As stated earlier if you want to have a 1:1 discussion on this, please feel free to PM me. If not STFU douche.
(This post was edited by GeneralZon on Oct 15, 2008, 8:25 PM)
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1959
Oct 15, 2008, 8:40 PM
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Dear GZ...OK you got me...as I said "I wasn't there," but that is hardly the point. Please forgive any inaccuracies in my sarcastic synopsis, as it was just that sarcasm. I apologize if my wit withers your masculinity, I certainly never intended that you should be personally affronted.
This debacle made mention in my local paper.
THAT IS THE POINT
In Neanderthal times we disputed issues with grunts. A news-report ran to a paragraph of Oomphs and Urghs all of which were pretty much meaningless. Now we have speech and sentences and paragraphs and columnists and anchor-people. What they say effects us all. The image the media presents of us then trickles down into town hall meetings where decisions are made that may have adverse effects upon WE THE CLIMBERS.
I see from your response that this concept is beyond the capabilities of your perception. Maybe you were born into the wrong period of evolution.
Have a nice day :-)
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GeneralZon
Oct 15, 2008, 8:52 PM
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That is it, I was born at the wrong period of time. Har har har, or should I say der dee der der.
Actually, I was personally affronted. The climber who got injured is my best friend and climbing partner. So hearing from uniformed voices like you is an affront.
Your local paper, the Reading Eagle (which is hardly a decade out of the Neanderthal Times), did not report a single accuracy besides a climber getting injured from falling and the date.
Masculinity has nothing to do with what I said. I will DISCUSS this with you privately if you have a problem. That is all I stated.
And who are you "WE THE CLIMBERS"? That would be us too, minus the douche bag "I am better than you mentality" such as yourself.
As stated earlier, I hope you fortunate enough to never make a mistake or have an accident.
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