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panacea82
Oct 14, 2008, 2:53 PM
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Does anyone have any more information on how Marcy from Morgantown WV is doing after her fall from the top of Ro Shampo?
For those of you that down know a climber was at the top or Ro Shampo on monday when something went wrong and she fell from 65 feet. It was the most horrible sound i have ever heard. Thanks to the help of everyone at Roadside that day she was safely evacuated and flown to the hospital.
Let it be a lesion for us all. ALWAYS double check your systems!
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fitzontherocks
Oct 14, 2008, 3:19 PM
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I'd rather avoid lesions when I'm climbing. But that's just me.
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alpineclimb
Oct 14, 2008, 4:24 PM
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OMG that's horrible. My friends and I were the first ones to get on Ro on Monday morning. We were climbing with Lisa Rands and Stephanie Forte until about 11am when we had to head back to Lexington to fly home to NH. My prayers are with her. I was the last one to clean the our draws on monday and I lowered off the biners that were at the anchors. They seemed fine and safe. Obviously I didn't have any issues.
Remember to always double check yourself before coming off "direct."
Prayers are with her!
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lena_chita
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Oct 14, 2008, 4:39 PM
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Wow, yet another accident! So many...
I hope Marcy recovers well. My thoughts are with her.
With a fall that big (and landing on those boulders?  or did she miss the boulders and landed in the sand?) she is lucky to be alive.
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lemurboy
Oct 14, 2008, 5:04 PM
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My partner and I were involved in the rescue, (He was the first paramedic on scene and I was giving the belay for the decent down the trail). We rushed down to roadside the minute we heard there was an accident.
My thoughts and prayers are with Marcy today, and I am itching to know how she made out.
I just want to say good on every climber at Roadside that day. It could have been a lot worse if not for everyone pulling together to help! We got her out of there and into good hands with great speed!
Everyone demonstrated a lot of class and I experienced a real sense of brother and sisterhood, climbers taking care of their own.
Thank you
-Aaron
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firstbmw
Oct 14, 2008, 7:41 PM
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Yes Aaron, the climbing community was done proud by all who helped.
A big thumbs up to the folks who were there first and did the right things. Together we all helped and got her out and onto the chopper within the "golden hour" of her accident.
There is no question that a fall from 60+ feet is potentially fatal, and her wounds would have been fatal if she had not received the fast and proper care that she did.
Please, everyone, take a first Aid and/or a wilderness first aid course, bring a first Aid kit with you EVERY TIME.
and though many disagree...wear a helmet.
(This post was edited by firstbmw on Oct 14, 2008, 7:43 PM)
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Azure
Oct 14, 2008, 9:12 PM
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Gear failure or human error?
Glad to hear the outcome of the rescue effort. Good job to those involved.
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kostik
Oct 15, 2008, 3:18 PM
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I climbed with Marcy last summer at the New. Met her again last weekend at the Rocktoberfest at Miguel's. She looked very lonely and somewhat upset with something.
I wish Marcy to recover quickly.
(This post was edited by kostik on Oct 15, 2008, 9:48 PM)
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livinonasandbar
Oct 15, 2008, 5:13 PM
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Does anyone have an update on Marcy's condition and the circumstances of her accident?
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wasatchchic
Oct 15, 2008, 6:21 PM
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I just posted this on RRG and thought I would post here as well
I was the belayer of the accident at Roadside. We were on Ro Shambo. Charlie (from the RRG thread) was correct in what happened.
It was both of our faults.
My fault because I didn't understand the system of how everything would work (I obviously do now). I had never done this before (climbing in the middle of a rope on a one pitch sport route) and had asked the strategy as she was hopping on the climb. She explained how she would unclip her end and clip her side. I understood how that would work, so put her on belay. As she got to the top we started talking as I was still confused about the mechanics of it all. She said she was indirect so I assumed (huge, huge, huge fault of mine) that she had it under control. When she said take, I took. And she fell.
This was also her fault because I don't think she could have tested her rope prior to being lowered as if she had, she would have seen it was not taut.
It was a horrible accident. A result of mis-communication and assumption. A reminder that climbing is dangerous.
The update is she is healing and has been transferred to a hospital in West Virginia. She has many fractures and needs surgery but will definitely live. We have left each other messages, but have yet to talk in person. She sounds good but thinks she made a horrible mistake, when in reality we were both at fault and climbing is dangerous. As for me, I am obviously really shaken up still and deciding what to do now. I don't know if I climb again, I don't know if I go home (to Utah). I don't know yet. I guess I am just simply lost in life right now but will make some decisions in a couple days after talking with her in person. There were three witnesses and they are all doing alright. One is back in Canada safely, the other two are still here at Miguel's and decided to go out climbing today.
That is the update.
(This post was edited by wasatchchic on Oct 15, 2008, 6:25 PM)
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livinonasandbar
Oct 15, 2008, 7:28 PM
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Wasatchchic, I feel for you. Try not to beat yourself up too much, although I realize that's probably much easier to say than do.
From your account, it sounds as though you did what was asked of you by the climber, and the climber made a costly mistake. I'm happy to know she has survived and hope she enjoys a complete recovery.
Wishing you strength and peace in your heart.
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wormly81
Oct 15, 2008, 7:35 PM
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I still dont understand what happened. That probably has something to do with why there was an accident. Best wishes to Marcy for a speedy recovery.
(This post was edited by wormly81 on Oct 15, 2008, 7:39 PM)
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knieveltech
Oct 15, 2008, 7:38 PM
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wormly81 wrote: I still dont understand what happened. That probably has something to due with why there was an accident. Best wishes to Marcy for a speedy recovery.
Right there with you. I think it's going to take a diagram for me to get my head wrapped around the system they where using.
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gothcopter
Oct 15, 2008, 8:49 PM
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knieveltech wrote: Right there with you. I think it's going to take a diagram for me to get my head wrapped around the system they where using.
Ok, here goes...
So, imagine a scenario where climber B has just finished belaying climber A on the lead of an overhanging climb. Climbers B and C both want to toprope the climb, but it is only safe to toprope with the rope redirected through the draws.
Climber B takes the rope out of her belay device, ties an alpine butterfly right there on the rope and clips it to her harness with locking carabiners. Climber C goes on belay on the leader's end of the rope.
Climber B ascends, unclipping the rope above her from the draws and clipping the trailing rope into the draws beneath her. When she gets to the anchor, she goes on direct, unclips belay rope from the anchor, and clips the rope trailing through the draws into the anchor.
At this point, climber C should switch to belaying on the rope trailed by climber B, and then lower climber B to the ground.
Climber C can then tie into the end of the rope, and be belayed up by climber B.
The problem came during step 4 -- climber C never switched to belaying on the other rope.
There is a way to accomplish this same task without going off belay. All climber B needs to do is take a couple of extra draws or carabiners to the top of the route with her. Then instead of going on direct, she can simply connect the trailing rope to the toprope anchor alongside her belay rope. She can then be lowered, and the trailing line will come down with her. Once on the ground, she can pull her former belay line through the anchors to get it out of the way if desired.
(This post was edited by gothcopter on Oct 15, 2008, 8:51 PM)
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knieveltech
Oct 15, 2008, 8:53 PM
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1. Sweet. Thanks for taking the time to diagram that out.
2. WHAT THE FUCK?! Nothing about that system looks like a good idea to me. People seriously do this? Seriously?
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glytch
Oct 15, 2008, 9:00 PM
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knieveltech wrote: wormly81 wrote: I still dont understand what happened. That probably has something to due with why there was an accident. Best wishes to Marcy for a speedy recovery. Right there with you. I think it's going to take a diagram for me to get my head wrapped around the system they where using.
I just drew it out and think I get it:
Imagine you have a wandering route that you've lead and set up as a toprope, and that you're using two ropes. Because the route wanders, as you climb and unclip the rope above you, you clip a trailing rope into the pro, so the next person to TR the route is protected. At the top, you clip into the anchor directly, and then unclip the TR from the anchor and clip the trailing rope into the anchor.
If you unclip from the anchor, the former TR rope runs directly from you to your belayer and can not support weight (of course). This is exactly what happened here, except the climber was tied into the middle of a single rope, as opposed to TRing on one rope and trailing another.
To prevent this, the belayer would have had to take the climber off belay on one end of the rope and put her back on the other end of the rope. Alternatively, the climber could have made sure that both ends of the rope went through the anchor (the belayer could lower the climber on the same rope as the climber went up on). In either case, there are a lot of steps involved and a few possible sources of error. Either method could be acceptable, though neither ideal.
The two main take-home messages here, as I see them:
1) Clear communication between climber and belayer before and during the climb is crucial. If there is any doubt as to how a climber's getting down, particularly in a tricky or unrehearsed scenario, go back to the basics and take the time necessary to make sure everyone's clear on what's going on.
2) Always weight and double check a lowering method prior to detaching from the anchor / letting go of holds. In this case, the climber would have realized that the belayer was pulling them downward, not upward, and that something was awry.
Thank you, wasatchgirl, for being courageous enough to describe what happened so we can all learn from it. This must be tremendously difficult for you end even more so for your partner, but at least the situation was not as tragic as it might have been.
My best wishes to the climber for a fast recovery and a rapid return to the rocks.
g
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glytch
Oct 15, 2008, 9:02 PM
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Ah, thanks! exactly what I described, but your pictures are more articulate than my words.
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jdefazio
Oct 15, 2008, 9:05 PM
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knieveltech wrote: wormly81 wrote: I still dont understand what happened. That probably has something to due with why there was an accident. Best wishes to Marcy for a speedy recovery. Right there with you. I think it's going to take a diagram for me to get my head wrapped around the system they where using.
Sorry for no diagram, but here is a related picture of this setup I have in my head.
Imagine climbing a steep single pitch sport route with a group of three and only one person leads. The typical scenario would be:
-The first leads the route, and lowers off. The rope now runs from the ground up through many draws, through the anchors, and back down to the ground
- The second will climb (TR) on the "opposite" end that the leader did, removing/unclipping draws as they go. They face only a small swing if falling at any point due to the successive draws above them. This climber reaches top anchors and lowers.
- The third climber can now only TR from the top anchors, facing a very large pendulum swing, perhaps even into the ground or other features depending on the route.
So to avoid this (assuming they can't/won't lead the route), the second could clip a trailing (different) rope through all pieces as they go. This enables the last climber to have the same situation as the second just climbed themselves on this "new" rope. Or, as appears to be related to this case, they can climb tied into a bight in the middle of the rope, clipping the trailing side as they go.
This is where I get confused. Why the need to go in direct, perform the anchor switch-a-roo, transfer the belay to the other end of the rope, and lower? If there is enough rope available for this system in the first place, couldn't you could just lower as usual when reaching the anchors, remove the bight tie-in when you reach ground, and then remove the slack?
Either way, I'll take the second rope option hands down.
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wormly81
Oct 15, 2008, 11:00 PM
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Not being a prolific sport climber, I have never been in a situation where a process such as described was necessary. I can see it would have its use in certain circumstances, specifically if there was a very short overhanging route that two people wanted to follow.
gothcopter wrote: There is a way to accomplish this same task without going off belay. All climber B needs to do is take a couple of extra draws or carabiners to the top of the route with her. Then instead of going on direct, she can simply connect the trailing rope to the toprope anchor alongside her belay rope. She can then be lowered, and the trailing line will come down with her.
This appears to be the correct way to perform the procedure for those so inclined.
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jdefazio
Oct 15, 2008, 11:24 PM
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Great, thanks for the sketches. Exactly what I was envisioning.
I am still unclear, however, why in this scenario...
gothcopter wrote: There is a way to accomplish this same task without going off belay. All climber B needs to do is take a couple of extra draws or carabiners to the top of the route with her. Then instead of going on direct, she can simply connect the trailing rope to the toprope anchor alongside her belay rope. She can then be lowered, and the trailing line will come down with her. Once on the ground, she can pull her former belay line through the anchors to get it out of the way if desired.
...the climber (B) needs to do anything at all but finish the climb and just be lowered from the TR anchor, without any change in anything.
Couldn't she just be lowered down, remove her tie in knot from bight, pull out the big loop of slack and be all set? You would still end up with a TR slingshot with one end running up through all the draws, unless I am missing something.
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gothcopter
Oct 15, 2008, 11:32 PM
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jdefazio wrote: Great, thanks for the sketches. Exactly what I was envisioning. I am still unclear, however, why in this scenario... gothcopter wrote: There is a way to accomplish this same task without going off belay. All climber B needs to do is take a couple of extra draws or carabiners to the top of the route with her. Then instead of going on direct, she can simply connect the trailing rope to the toprope anchor alongside her belay rope. She can then be lowered, and the trailing line will come down with her. Once on the ground, she can pull her former belay line through the anchors to get it out of the way if desired. ...the climber (B) needs to do anything at all but finish the climb and just be lowered from the TR anchor, without any change in anything. Couldn't she just be lowered down, remove her tie in knot from bight, pull out the big loop of slack and be all set? You would still end up with a TR slingshot with one end running up through all the draws, unless I am missing something.
Duh. You're absolutely right! The procedure I was envisioning was based off of a procedure when you have two ropes, which is not the case here. Your way is the simplest and safest for the given scenario.
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jdefazio
Oct 16, 2008, 1:39 AM
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gothcopter wrote: jdefazio wrote: Great, thanks for the sketches. Exactly what I was envisioning. I am still unclear, however, why in this scenario... gothcopter wrote: There is a way to accomplish this same task without going off belay. All climber B needs to do is take a couple of extra draws or carabiners to the top of the route with her. Then instead of going on direct, she can simply connect the trailing rope to the toprope anchor alongside her belay rope. She can then be lowered, and the trailing line will come down with her. Once on the ground, she can pull her former belay line through the anchors to get it out of the way if desired. ...the climber (B) needs to do anything at all but finish the climb and just be lowered from the TR anchor, without any change in anything. Couldn't she just be lowered down, remove her tie in knot from bight, pull out the big loop of slack and be all set? You would still end up with a TR slingshot with one end running up through all the draws, unless I am missing something. Duh. You're absolutely right! The procedure I was envisioning was based off of a procedure when you have two ropes, which is not the case here. Your way is the simplest and safest for the given scenario.
Gotcha, thanks.
Hindsight being 20/20, I'm sure they woulda, shoulda, coulda done a lot of things...anyway, very glad she is doing OK after a fall like that.
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Maddhatter
Oct 16, 2008, 4:11 AM
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God, what a sad story. I hope she comes out of this ok.
Please send our love to her. She will be in our thoughts and we hope she gets well soon.
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josephgdawson
Oct 16, 2008, 6:26 AM
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No shortage of places for error in the system described.
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