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clmbrchick
Oct 19, 2008, 12:38 AM
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http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/17753442/detail.html
(This post was edited by clmbrchick on Oct 19, 2008, 3:22 AM)
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clmbrchick
Oct 19, 2008, 12:40 AM
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Oh this is sad news! James Welton was one of the friendliest people I have ever met. He was passionate about climbing and had a patience that proved his love and enthusiasm for climbing and the outdoors. I met James in Indian Creek back in May...ironically he was good friends with Daryn Smith (aka:stymingersfink) who just passed away in September of heart failure. I met the two of them at the same time and cannot believe that they have died within a month of each other. James and his girlfriend had shot a bunch of photographs from that weekend...shortly thereafter I received a card from James in the mail along with a CD of the photos he had shot and some music to fill the space at the end. I saved the card that had his info on it and an invitation which read..."you have a place to stay if you're in my area-where ever that may be, Probably best to call or email to find out for sure I like to move about."
I am terribly saddened to hear this news and my heart and prayers go out to Jamie, all of James' family and friends. James, you will be missed terribly and it looks like I'm gonna have to look you up in the afterlife...I imagine in some great climbing area in the sky. Peace be with you! You will be remembered!
Andrea
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socalclimber
Oct 19, 2008, 1:28 AM
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Do we know anything more about this. 300 feet is along way.
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shockabuku
Oct 19, 2008, 1:46 AM
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sungam
Oct 19, 2008, 2:15 AM
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man, this is sad.
Sounds like a real character, I'm sorry he's gone.
My condolences to you- it's hard losing a friend, let alone such strong characters as these. But to lose two in such a short time- my heart feels for you.
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majid_sabet
Oct 19, 2008, 3:01 AM
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Climber falls and dies in Zion National Park
Posted: 2:58 PM- A Colorado man died Friday after falling during a climb in Zion National Park.
The more-than-1,000-foot climb usually takes climbers two days and requires an overnight stay on a portable ledge the release stated. Welton was about 300 feet up when his two climbing partners saw him fall. Climbers ascending a nearby route flagged down a shuttle bus at about 7:15 p.m., then called police. The Zion Search and Rescue team confirmed Welton died at the scene. The team spent the night removing the body and investigating the fall.
Welton was an experienced climber and had recently climbed El Capitan in California's Yosemite National Park.
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robdotcalm
Oct 19, 2008, 3:05 AM
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Andrea. Very sorry to hear about the death of your friend. Condolences to you, his other friends and family.
Peace, rob.calm
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angry
Oct 19, 2008, 3:07 AM
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This is another tough one. My condolences and a reminder to please be careful.
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clmbrchick
Oct 19, 2008, 3:32 AM
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Please send your condolences towards, James' family and his girlfriend, Jamie...I know that she and Darlene were on route to ZNP when the incident happened. I posted because he did leave an impression on me and more so on my very good friend, Teague, who considered James one of his best friends. My prayers go out to all those close to him.
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moose_droppings
Oct 19, 2008, 3:38 AM
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I sure hated reading that.
My deepest heartfelt sympathies and condolences to his family and friends.
RIP
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socalclimber
Oct 19, 2008, 12:37 PM
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climbingtrash wrote: socalclimber wrote: Do we know anything more about this. 300 feet is along way. We heard about this today and were completely shocked, sounds like he was jumaring up a fixed line when he fell. Haven't got all the facts yet but man what a bummer. My condolences go out to his family, friends, and climbing partners. 
Huh, blind assumption here, but this would mean he wasn't backed up to his harness.
My buddy Tucker told me about a similar accident in Yosemite years ago when he was on SAR. Guy was jugging fixed lines and had to pass a knot and some how managed to get both ascenders off the rope, hung with both hands, then got tired, and you can guess the rest.
Keep us updated, I am very curious as to how this happened.
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geogoddess
Oct 20, 2008, 3:36 AM
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clmbrchick wrote: Please send your condolences towards, James' family and his girlfriend, Jamie...I know that she and Darlene were on route to ZNP when the incident happened. I posted because he did leave an impression on me and more so on my very good friend, Teague, who considered James one of his best friends. My prayers go out to all those close to him.
Andrea, will you call me when you get a chance, love to you, this is very difficult.
Edited to add: and thank you for your beautiful post, above; James was an absolute sweetheart.
(This post was edited by geogoddess on Oct 20, 2008, 4:36 AM)
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clmbrdancer
Oct 21, 2008, 1:46 AM
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socalclimber wrote: Huh, blind assumption here, but this would mean he wasn't backed up to his harness. My buddy Tucker told me about a similar accident in Yosemite years ago when he was on SAR. Guy was jugging fixed lines and had to pass a knot and some how managed to get both ascenders off the rope, hung with both hands, then got tired, and you can guess the rest. Keep us updated, I am very curious as to how this happened.
A small update: http://www.durangoherald.com/sections/News/2008/10/19/Durango_man_falls_dies_at_Zion_National_Park/
For those of us who knew him and climbed with him, please keep the speculation quiet as we wait for more information to be released.
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robdotcalm
Oct 21, 2008, 2:05 AM
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clmbrdancer wrote: socalclimber wrote: Huh, blind assumption here, but this would mean he wasn't backed up to his harness. My buddy Tucker told me about a similar accident in Yosemite years ago when he was on SAR. Guy was jugging fixed lines and had to pass a knot and some how managed to get both ascenders off the rope, hung with both hands, then got tired, and you can guess the rest. Keep us updated, I am very curious as to how this happened. A small update: http://www.durangoherald.com/sections/News/2008/10/19/Durango_man_falls_dies_at_Zion_National_Park/ For those of us who knew him and climbed with him, please keep the speculation quiet as we wait for more information to be released.
What the reference said:
Zion spokesman Tom Haraden said Welton was unmarried and his parents live in Iowa. Welton was climbing with Matt Tuttle of Kamas, Utah, and Robert Hooker of Elko, Nev.
His Durango address was on Misty Lane, but Haraden said Welton had been living with Hooker in Elko for the last six months.
Touchstone Wall is a 1,000-foot climb from the Virgin River to the top and usually takes two days with an overnight stay on a portable ledge. Haraden described Welton as an experienced climber and said the investigation so far does not assign blame to Welton or specifically his equipment.
"While the cause of the incident is still being investigated, Welton was climbing a rope using mechanical ascenders. It appears the ascenders may not have been fully engaged, resulting in a 20-foot fall along the rope. When the ascenders did fully engage, the shock severed the rope," Haraden wrote in a news release.
Haraden said he wants to get accurate information to fellow climbers.
"We want the climbing community to know, because when we don't, all the blogs just guess. It makes for a big mess, and we want people to learn," he said.
"They can assess his technique and equipment, and if something could have been done differently, they can spread the word so it doesn't happen again."
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socalclimber
Oct 21, 2008, 3:09 AM
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robdotcalm wrote: clmbrdancer wrote: socalclimber wrote: Huh, blind assumption here, but this would mean he wasn't backed up to his harness. My buddy Tucker told me about a similar accident in Yosemite years ago when he was on SAR. Guy was jugging fixed lines and had to pass a knot and some how managed to get both ascenders off the rope, hung with both hands, then got tired, and you can guess the rest. Keep us updated, I am very curious as to how this happened. A small update: http://www.durangoherald.com/sections/News/2008/10/19/Durango_man_falls_dies_at_Zion_National_Park/ For those of us who knew him and climbed with him, please keep the speculation quiet as we wait for more information to be released. What the reference said: Zion spokesman Tom Haraden said Welton was unmarried and his parents live in Iowa. Welton was climbing with Matt Tuttle of Kamas, Utah, and Robert Hooker of Elko, Nev. His Durango address was on Misty Lane, but Haraden said Welton had been living with Hooker in Elko for the last six months. Touchstone Wall is a 1,000-foot climb from the Virgin River to the top and usually takes two days with an overnight stay on a portable ledge. Haraden described Welton as an experienced climber and said the investigation so far does not assign blame to Welton or specifically his equipment. "While the cause of the incident is still being investigated, Welton was climbing a rope using mechanical ascenders. It appears the ascenders may not have been fully engaged, resulting in a 20-foot fall along the rope. When the ascenders did fully engage, the shock severed the rope," Haraden wrote in a news release. Haraden said he wants to get accurate information to fellow climbers. "We want the climbing community to know, because when we don't, all the blogs just guess. It makes for a big mess, and we want people to learn," he said. "They can assess his technique and equipment, and if something could have been done differently, they can spread the word so it doesn't happen again."
Very interesting.
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majid_sabet
Oct 21, 2008, 3:17 AM
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robdotcalm wrote: clmbrdancer wrote: socalclimber wrote: Huh, blind assumption here, but this would mean he wasn't backed up to his harness. My buddy Tucker told me about a similar accident in Yosemite years ago when he was on SAR. Guy was jugging fixed lines and had to pass a knot and some how managed to get both ascenders off the rope, hung with both hands, then got tired, and you can guess the rest. Keep us updated, I am very curious as to how this happened. A small update: http://www.durangoherald.com/sections/News/2008/10/19/Durango_man_falls_dies_at_Zion_National_Park/ For those of us who knew him and climbed with him, please keep the speculation quiet as we wait for more information to be released. What the reference said: Zion spokesman Tom Haraden said Welton was unmarried and his parents live in Iowa. Welton was climbing with Matt Tuttle of Kamas, Utah, and Robert Hooker of Elko, Nev. His Durango address was on Misty Lane, but Haraden said Welton had been living with Hooker in Elko for the last six months. Touchstone Wall is a 1,000-foot climb from the Virgin River to the top and usually takes two days with an overnight stay on a portable ledge. Haraden described Welton as an experienced climber and said the investigation so far does not assign blame to Welton or specifically his equipment. "While the cause of the incident is still being investigated, Welton was climbing a rope using mechanical ascenders. It appears the ascenders may not have been fully engaged, resulting in a 20-foot fall along the rope. When the ascenders did fully engage, the shock severed the rope," Haraden wrote in a news release. Haraden said he wants to get accurate information to fellow climbers. "We want the climbing community to know, because when we don't, all the blogs just guess. It makes for a big mess, and we want people to learn," he said. "They can assess his technique and equipment, and if something could have been done differently, they can spread the word so it doesn't happen again."
Very sad to hear about this when it was avoidable with clipping the safety biner on jumars and tie short every 5 to 10 feet with a fig 8 back to harness cause you never know when they come out.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Oct 21, 2008, 4:44 AM)
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flamer
Oct 21, 2008, 4:13 AM
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Majid,
Please delete your post.
Its not the right time.
My deepest sympathy to all that knew the man.
josh
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toofreakinsexy1
Oct 21, 2008, 5:23 AM
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I disagree flamer (no insult intended?) This is a very sad situation and my heart goes out to everyone involved, frankly it's shocking how many deaths have occured lately, but what we can learn from these mistakes is important, as long as it's done respectfully.
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socalclimber
Oct 21, 2008, 10:02 AM
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toofreakinsexy1 wrote: I disagree flamer (no insult intended?) This is a very sad situation and my heart goes out to everyone involved, frankly it's shocking how many deaths have occured lately, but what we can learn from these mistakes is important, as long as it's done respectfully.
I agree. This thread needs to be split. Put all the condolences and such in the In Memory Of forum, and let's keeps this one on track.
I disagree with Majid however. Even if somebody is tied in short, and their ascender cuts the rope, the back tie is below the cut point, hence, wouldn't make any difference.
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holdplease2
Oct 21, 2008, 12:33 PM
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First of all, condolences to the friends and family of this gentleman, and to his partners.
I'm sure that some threads will be for such condolences, others will be for analysis, I just wanted to add the following in light of so many folks claiming that simple steps like slipping a biner through a hole on an ascender or tying in could prevent such events. Until we know for sure what happened, we don't know. However, soas to provide perhaps some fair balance to folks reading those statements on this thread, please see below.
There are all kinds of ways your rope could be cut, even if you are running a backup knot.
* Many people tie into the end of the rope, but run a minitraxion (toothed device) as their backup on a shoulder length sling. Coming off of your ascenders when passing a knot in this case could result in a four foot static fall, from above the traxion to below it.
* If you are jugging a line that was blown over an outcropping of rock (perhaps overnight) and didn't know it, and the rope "popped" from behind the outcropping while you were jugging, it could result in a static fall.
Additionally, there are ways that you could fall from your top ascender onto your bottom, shockloading, even when you are running a biner through the hole in the top of your ascender. It is still possible to de-activate the cam by cramming it into the rock or flicking it with your thumb. This can cause the top ascender to suddenly slide down the rope, shockloading the bottom ascender.
While these shockloads may not seem big, the load could be increased when you are jumaring the static rope. Fashionably thin lines used for hauling are sometimes used for jumaring, further narrowing the margin for error.
There are seemingly many ways for these systems to fail that we are lucky it doesn't happen more often, and perhaps those who see them fail are incredibly unlucky to have these things happen to them.
Of course tying in short or using a biner through the hole on the ascender can prevent many types of accidents and I do both frequently, its also important to recognize other potential problems.
If this is inappropriate in this thread, I'd be happy to move it, or someone else can move it as I'm traveling and may not be able to see such requests.
-Kate.
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flamer
Oct 21, 2008, 2:42 PM
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toofreakinsexy1 wrote: but what we can learn from these mistakes is important, as long as it's done respectfully.
I agree completely....however read what Majid wrote and how it was said. Sure's seems like a scolding of the victim.
josh
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clmbrchick
Oct 21, 2008, 3:11 PM
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"I want to assure everyone that no blatant mistakes were made by James or anyone else in the party, and what happened really was a horribly tragic accident. Trust me, I had a very intimate conversation with the park service and all of the people involved in the climbing and the investigation. "
This is the quote from the memorial thread by James' girlfriend, Jamie.
Folks, on behalf of all those close to James please take the speculation elsewhere and do not attach James' name to the thread. The facts of this event will come, please be patient. All the above discussion is disregarding the request of those close to James. Have patience for the facts will come and a valid discussion can then take place. Until then, if you would like to continue speculation please move elsewhere.
Thank you...we appreciate the respect for the family and friends who are right now concerned with the facts.
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socalclimber
Oct 21, 2008, 9:53 PM
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flamer wrote: toofreakinsexy1 wrote: but what we can learn from these mistakes is important, as long as it's done respectfully. I agree completely....however read what Majid wrote and how it was said. Sure's seems like a scolding of the victim. josh
Actually, what Majid wrote wasn't scolding of the victim, it was flat out wrong.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Oct 21, 2008, 9:57 PM)
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flamer
Oct 21, 2008, 11:42 PM
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socalclimber wrote: flamer wrote: toofreakinsexy1 wrote: but what we can learn from these mistakes is important, as long as it's done respectfully. I agree completely....however read what Majid wrote and how it was said. Sure's seems like a scolding of the victim. josh Actually, what Majid wrote wasn't scolding of the victim, it was flat out wrong.
Lol, I avoided that part in an effort to keep things were they currently belong.
josh
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