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gunked


Nov 11, 2002, 6:59 PM
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We're (hopefully!!! we hope work doesn't get in the way) going to climb WDD later this week. I got word that a party was cleaning it last week for free climbing. Something like that. I'm a little concerned that fixed gear might now be stripped. Assuming this is a possibility, just how many heads and ?rurp's etc... will I need to bring? Any beta would appreciated! Thanks!!

Jason


gunked


Nov 11, 2002, 10:41 PM
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what size heads and how many of each would you recommend?

Thanks Jason


spiffdog


Nov 12, 2002, 7:08 AM
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Cleaned? I doubt it. Even if someone was going to try and free it, they would still need pro. They might clean a few of the heads to make some finger pockets, but not all of them. If your convinced someone cleaned the head ramp, you probably should bring about 6 each 2's and 3's, and maybe 1 4 just in case. More than likely, you won't need more than one or two. I didn't place any RURPS, but I think I may have clipped a fixed one, I can't really recall. If you think someone went through and cleaned every single head on the entire route (not bloody likely) you should triple what I said above.

Spiff


gunked


Nov 12, 2002, 9:41 AM
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Thanx! It's amazing how a light rack can get heavier with a little rumor. I feel like I'm in high school again!



Thanks guys,
Jason


dsafanda


Nov 12, 2002, 9:58 AM
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There were rumors of this on Supertopo also. The story was that it was Todd Skinner who was cleaning the line in prep for a free attempt. I have no idea if any of it is true.


gunked


Nov 13, 2002, 1:49 AM
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I checked out supertopos and I really hope that is just a rumor!!!

For those not familiar with the RUMOR it is this : Todd Skinner and party (Paul Piana?) have spent the better part of a month 'cleaning' WDD for a free attempt. Also mentioned is a declaration by Skinner that WDD is off limits to hammering.

This is only a rumor and I REALLY HOPE it is not true. If anybody has information about this, please reply. If somebody is going around laying claim to what future parties can and cannot do on a route, like hammering, I feel it is definitely worth discussing. I'm, obviously, not talking about the Nose or equivalent where hammering is, by today's standards, quite unnecessary and, more to the point, a selfish act as it puts the needs of a few over the needs of very many. However, if this rumor does have truth to it, where does someone get off laying claim to a route (WDD) and putting his needs (free-attempt project) ahead of so very many (aid-climber)?

I really hope this is not true! I'm also hoping that a climber as prolific and so very, very outspoken as Skinner has the morals and integrity to not be as selfish as this rumor would imply!!!

Jason


passthepitonspete


Nov 13, 2002, 7:23 PM
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Just climb it, mate.

Do like you would do on any aid route - climb hammerless where possible, and place heads when you need to.

Heads shall be placed and heads shall be cleaned - such is life on the big wall.

Note: If you are fortunate, the heads will have been cleaned, and you will enjoy placing your own. Heading is fun and not all that difficult once you get the hang of it. I think proper pitoncraft takes a lot more skill than heading. I'm pretty good at heading, but nailing still causes me grief from time to time......rather ironic when your nickname is PTPP!


passthepitonspete


Nov 13, 2002, 10:13 PM
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John,

I never said I wasn't scared!

Sheesh.


petsfed


Nov 13, 2002, 10:41 PM
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Pete, don't you always say that its not true aid unless you're scared out of your mind? Truly a part of the PTPP mystique.


gunked


Nov 14, 2002, 10:41 AM
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Thanks for the kick in the ass guys. I'm sure I need a little bit of that from time to time. And, YES, the thought of placing many heads above a ledge doesn't completely appeal to me. However, in some ways it does. I swear, you have to be a bit of a nut to enjoy this game we play!!!

Yesterday, I was speaking with Todd's partner and he gave me the beta. Long story, short: the free variation doesn't follow the entirety of WDD ot goes off to the left in a few place. And, it does not go out the P9 roof. It goeas out to the left over to a bombay chimney.

Anyway, we gotta take off on a few to the Valley. If anybody wants a trip report, let me know!

Jason


brutusofwyde


Nov 17, 2002, 11:02 AM
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Talked to Skinner's partner in the project last week.

Yes, Skinner and partner have been cleaning some of the heads out of the cracks where finger pockets were needed. Two bolts have been added to the existing aid line where copperheads were originally used. Other bolts they placed are on free variations of the route, and not on the aid line.

Loose rock that they cleaned was caught in haul bags to protect the parties commuting to the West Face route along the base.

All of their variation has been "bouldered" free, i.e. every move has gone, but no redpoint of the crux pitch at this time.

This is all the info I have that is not second or third hand, rumor, or blind speculation.

Brutus


passthepitonspete


Nov 17, 2002, 1:16 PM
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Bruce writes,

Quote:"Two bolts have been added to the existing aid line where copperheads were originally used."
WHAT?!

There is no legitimate reason for doing this!

If this is true, then the selfishness of these climbers has made this route easier. This is unfair to aid climbers who still want to be scared, and to revel in the danger and glory of heading.

I advocate that these bolts be immediately removed, and that the holes be filled with a mixture of rock dust and epoxy to render them as invisible as possible.

Sheesh.

What's next? Add a couple bolts to the crux pitch of Reticent Wall so they can free climb THAT, too?
I repeat: there is no possible justification for this action! It is a slippery slope indeed were this type of behaviour tolerated and accepted.

I certainly hope it is not.


socalclimber


Nov 17, 2002, 3:29 PM
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I really hope this is untrue. Could we get one more verification on the 2 bolts added to the existing aid line??? I've met Brutus, I know he doesn't pass rumors, but I find this hard to believe. In my opinion, this is really bad, and do hope these bolts are pulled and patched.

r.f


spiffdog


Nov 17, 2002, 5:00 PM
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It is entirely unacceptable, illegitmate, unreasonable, and otherwise disgusting to permanently turn an A3 route into A2 just so you can make a free attempt. Either free it with the heads, or leave it for the Huber's. They at least understand the concept of ethics.

-ashamed to be a climber


wonderbread


Nov 17, 2002, 7:14 PM
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give the old man one last shot and fame. But hopefully he'll pull the bolts himself when he realizes he's too old and washed up to actually free it.


passthepitonspete


Nov 17, 2002, 7:15 PM
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It would be really great if someone could confirm or deny this.

Cuz if it's not a rumour, the shit is about to hit the fan in a Big Time Way.

That is a promise.


bigwalling


Nov 17, 2002, 7:34 PM
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Spiff, Hubers do add bolts to aid lines. They added some bolts to Continental Drift with the F.A. parties agreement. But it was still adding bolts lowering the difficulting for aiders.


passthepitonspete


Nov 17, 2002, 7:58 PM
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Well I'll be buggered.

They printed this photo upside-down!

I seem to remember a photo of one of the Hubers on the old "A5 Traverse" [really]A3+] on The Heart Route, and there was a shiny new bolt. But I think they had replaced a manky old bolt, which is entirely different than adding a bolt to an established aid route.


gunked


Nov 18, 2002, 11:44 AM
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Just got back from the Valley. Nights were a bit chilly there!

Long story short : We hauled to the base of the Tower (start of the cat-walk) and my intuion said bail. So far, my intuition has been 100% accurate when it comes to climbing (not getting into particulars right now - it would take longer than I feel like typing), so we bailed. We met up w/ another guy who was intending to solo WDD and bailed as well. He lives in the Valley most winters. He got word about said bolts and intended to remove the hangers. As he told me, removing hangers attached to added or chicken bolts is standard valley practice.

So, I did not go up and can neither confirm nor deny existence of bolts and their approximate vicinity. I sound like a damn politician! The free route, as has been somewhat explained to me by one of the climbers, veers off to the left. I know bolts were added. I don't know if they are part of the original aid line or off to the left and out of reach or not.

Sorry for the lack of info and I guess I'm back to BWT till the next wall!

Jason

As far as copper-heading being an art : My partner and said bailing soloist decided to hike back down together with our pigs. On the way we found a nice spot to practice "the art of heading". It was alot of fun seeing just how strong these little suckers can be in the shittiest of placements. We even contemplated putting up a direct start up to the cat walk. The thought didn't get too far as it was, obviously, heading and hooking for a good 400 plus feet! Oh well! Maybe next year!

[ This Message was edited by: gunked on 2002-11-18 11:46 ]


passthepitonspete


Nov 18, 2002, 2:21 PM
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If said bolts are added to a completely different area of the cliff that is a free variation, and thence do not directly affect the aid line, then this is not so bad [if you happen to believe in bolting, which for the most part I do not].



As for bailing, there can be any number of reasons. "Intuition" is one such reason. Intuition can be an indefinable combination of wisdom, logic, feeling and emotion. Sometimes you just have to listen to your heart, and sometimes your heart says, "bail".

Now women, for the most part, tend to be much more "intuitive" than men.

Women also have no balls.

Yet many women do not bail, so just because you bail does not necessarily mean that you have no balls. Although it could.

Correlation does not imply causality.


gunked


Nov 18, 2002, 5:00 PM
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My heart says : "Casual women intuitively correlate bailing balls affecting the aid line."
Jason


copperhead


Nov 25, 2002, 9:19 PM
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Hmmm. I thought I saw a reply by Brutus not too long ago. Something about 2 added bolts to the route. Could this be on the pitch above Ahwahnee Ledge?? I seem to remember something about chicken bolts being chopped and filled on that route not too long ago. Proper etiquette would state that by ingenuity and engineering, multiple heads could be placed and equalized to form a bomber anchor for a free climbing attempt. But then again, the micro-tip-slots would be clogged by the extraneous blobs of metal, preventing such free attempts.

Maybe it should remain an aid climb.


pbjosh


Nov 25, 2002, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Long story short : We hauled to the base of the Tower


Man, that talus field is low angle and there're a lot of trees. Hauling that must have been a bitch. I'd hate to be the guy freeing the pigs, and it must have been hell on the haul lines...



josh


gunked


Nov 25, 2002, 11:38 PM
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Cute !

I meant we hauled the loads on our backs! After all, the pigs kept getting stuck with a 3 to 1 hauling rig through the low angle boulder field near the bottom. After that, we put the pigs on our back and took turns hauling eachother up using a 3 to 1. We shredded both ropes in the process. I can tell you it wasn't pretty. George's head kept getting stuck between the boulders until his helmet finally got ripped off by a sharp flake. Went much smoother after that.

Hey, maybe that's why we decided not to climb the route. To hell with intuition, maybe it was my ropes talking to me!

Jason

[ This Message was edited by: gunked on 2002-11-25 23:40 ]


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