I'm building up my rack, and sifting through the forums found that CCH Aliens are still iffy post-recall.
My question to the forum is what's the next best thing to Aliens? I'm leaning towards Master cams - I understand it's never going to be the same, but I'd rather sacrifice the features for top-not quality control... TIA!
....ready for it? [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/Basilisk613/RCsearch.jpg[/IMG]
Nice handwriting! If you read my post, I posted after searching through, just doing a survey since Master Cams are relatively new, does not hurt to get the latest consensus...
I really like my Wild Country (long stem) Zeros 3-6, but then, I aid climb. The stem feels pretty floppy for stuffing in, but that is also their big advantage. I also like my old style Trango flex cams (NOT splitter kind, these are now sold by Rock Empire) They are quite narrow, but have a stiffer stem than Zeros.
I personally think aliens are still the best small cam out there and have a couple new ones that have caught falls. I trust them more than others because of their high flexibility, and soft cam lobe metal that will bite into nearly anything. They also don't walk and can fit nearly anywhere. Metolius' cams are also very nice. I own lots of tcus and I think they are great too, as are the master cams. Aliens are still my favs though and I recommend them.
I would give the Aliens a chance, just make sure you test them. Design of Aliens is the best, the way company is run is not. If you can get your hands on an old Aliens that would be best but newer improved aliens are even better than old ones.
CCH's tensile testing is a joke! It's not dynamic!
I climb with a friend's Aliens all the time. I think I'll insist on using my BDs and WCs now. He's not going to like it by a long shot, but I don't want broken legs!
(This post was edited by anarkhos on Nov 2, 2008, 7:08 PM)
You know, the more I think about this, the more apprehensive I get.
I'm no metallurgest, but I do know from experience that it is devilishly difficult to weld, solder, or braze cable. There is a reason why all cable rigging (outside of cch) is done with crimps and bolts! Welding would be a lot cheaper/faster/easier than bolting or crimping, so it if worked we would see it everywhere. I don't recall seeing it outside of electronics and jewlery. A brazed e-brake cable wouldn't last long, I'll guarantee you that!
Do any other protection manufacturers braze or weld cables?
This is making Aliens look as secure as my laptop power connector, which suffers from the same problem.
Does anybody think CCH knows WTF they're doing? I'd like to be proven wrong since I foresee a confrontation over this issue at a crag in the near future. The whole static test pull video...I mean WTF?
I have a bunch of Aliens but I have stopped buying them since the failures. I have bought a couple of the new new Metolius Master cams. They are every bit as good as the Aliens and you don't have to worry when they are the only pieces between your ass and the grass. Like aliens, the head of the cam is narrow and they have a single stem, so you can get them in those places where Camalots just won't fit.
As an aside, I bought a couple of the Black Diamond C3s and I think they stink.
Pssttt..... The UIAA spec for cam testing and certification is a slow pull, and that's how pretty much everyone tests them.
I would love to hear the rationale for this.
Do they think the dynamic pull of the rope is going to eliminate shock and metal fatigue? I'm not expecting pro to be elastic, but let's take a simple example of brazing vs crimping two ends of cable together for a nut. Are you really going to trust such a piece based on static load testing?
You might want to go check out some rigging suppliers.... Lifting cables are often spelter sockets (poured molten zinc), not crimps/swages since a spelter socket can yield 100% of the rated strength of the cable (unlike crimps and most swages). A brazed connection can also be good, if done right.
Point taken, but the forces applied to this joint are linear in nature, plus when you pour the metal into the post it will evenly adhere. This isn't the case when brazing wire with flux and a torch.
Even the metolius joint is linear because it's on a pivot.
From the website, it looks like Master Cams have slightly less range than Aliens. Have people experienced this? Is it enough to be an issue?
I'm also thinking of getting either Aliens or Master Cams; I find that my friend's Aliens place better in shallower cracks than the smaller C4s I bought, and I don't happen to (personally) know any experienced climbers that have used both.
From the website, it looks like Master Cams have slightly less range than Aliens. Have people experienced this? Is it enough to be an issue?
It's incredibly aggravating actually. They actually pretty much suck compared to aliens. I only say this after extensively using both.
For smallish cams that aren't aliens, I'd just get the .3, .4. and .5 C4's. Nothing special but there's nothing inherently suck about them either. That does leave you with some choices smaller though.
The smallest and second smallest master cams have a much narrower head than the black and blue aliens. They might be better, then again, a C3 might be the more logical answer if you're looking for a narrow head.
To date, there is no replacement for aliens. There are options but nothing on their level yet. Just get new aliens and bounce test them, it's not that complicated.
I think the WC zero has a crimped end that is then wedged into a steel head. That's what it looks like. If CCH used this with their superior design, it would restore most people's faith I believe.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I really want to like Aliens. The pre-recall ones I've used are awesome.
You're giving a bit of advice I've heard before, but I wonder about it. Has anyone out there personally seen an alien fail a bounce test? I'm wondering how any amount of jumping up and down I could do would approach the force of a 15' fall.
Maybe one of the math guys could chime in with real numbers but from what I understand you could easily reach those forces.
If you are in on a piece of nylon webbing and create a 2-3ft nearly static fall, it's probably an equal or higher force than you'd exert on normal 15-30ft whipper on a dynamic rope.
I don't have the numbers or equations for you, but I'm sure enough digging would produce them.
From the website, it looks like Master Cams have slightly less range than Aliens. Have people experienced this? Is it enough to be an issue?
It's incredibly aggravating actually. They actually pretty much suck compared to aliens. I only say this after extensively using both.
My experience is the same as Angry's.
So my primary rack is still all (older) Aliens in the small range. When I need a second set of cams, I do sometimes use TCUs. But for certain placements, any dual-axle cam (including BD's 3CU) just aren't optimal.
Also, it's not rocket science to test your cams. I've tested approximately two dozen Aliens with a 3-4 kN fuse.
First time I've posted this footage. Here's a test of a blue Alien:
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