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TKubik
Nov 13, 2008, 10:00 AM
Post #26 of 61
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onceahardman wrote: Ok, you weren't trying to be cute: In reply to: someone lost the contents of their think bucket at Red Rock yesterday Maybe "clever", or "funny", but not "cute". Then: In reply to: this climber fell and cracked his head open and his brains spilled out onto the ground is more appropriate than to use an indirect reference to such an event. Now, if this is true: In reply to: I happen to know one of the search and rescue persons that performed the rescue. Why don't you contact that person, and have them post up something useful regarding this patient's condition? I couldn't find anything in the Vegas papers.
I'm working on it. I haven't had a chance to get in touch with him in the last couple of days. I will let you all know when I do.
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erclimb
Nov 13, 2008, 12:06 PM
Post #27 of 61
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"TKubit, when I go you have permission to make all the cracks, pun intended, about my demise/injury."
does this apply to your kids, too? i find most parents love dead kid jokes...i mean, what's funnier than jokes about dead kids; see, the humor is in the idea that our kids are precious so, lose a kid and hilarity ensues...hey, we should include pictures, too!
everybody is somebody's child, parent, friend, beloved wife/husband...if you and your friends want to crack jokes about people dying, fine, keep the jokes between you and your friends and NOT on a public forum
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socalclimber
Nov 13, 2008, 1:18 PM
Post #28 of 61
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You have my vote.
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bozher
Nov 13, 2008, 2:00 PM
Post #29 of 61
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Yeah, It hasn't exactly been my experience that the people who frequent these threads are sensitive to anyone but themselves. The grandstanding here makes me sick. That anyone really cares about the language used earlier really surprises me. It doesn't seem that anyone in these threads gives a fuck about other climber until other climbers get injured or die and possibly affect future access. Yeah I'm sure you all really care-especially if he was a "noob."
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Tree_wrangler
Nov 13, 2008, 2:13 PM
Post #30 of 61
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In reply to: It is not about the one who is dead. It is about the sensitivities of the living ones who have lost someone.
I get it. But I think our point is being missed. They're not here, and if they were, and they're offended by Mr. "TKubit", then that's their business to tell him to go F$$$ himself, not yours. I guarantee that, coming from them, he'd take the criticism quite seriously.
Notice that I haven't slandered any dead people. I think it's in poor form, but, I think that verbally assaulting folks for a casual slip of the lip, or trying to find humor in the dark is even more disrespectful and totally unproductive.
(This post was edited by Tree_wrangler on Nov 13, 2008, 2:19 PM)
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troutboy
Nov 13, 2008, 2:40 PM
Post #31 of 61
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Tree_wrangler wrote: I get it. But I think our point is being missed. They're not here, and if they were, and they're offended by Mr. "TKubit", then that's their business to tell him to go F$$$ himself, not yours.
So, would you be against victim's advocates, against standing up for the poor or those who cannot stand up for themsleves, for those who might be too stunned or otherwise unable to respond, for the sexual abuse or sexual harassment victim who might be too afraid to speak up and say, "Hey, that just is not right " ?
You cannot defend insensitive comments, no matter how hard you try. Just because nobody saw them (this time) does not make it right. For example, if someone invoked the N word on this forum, it would still be morally wrong even if no one of color saw the comment. It would certainly be morally correct to still tell that person, "Dude, using the N word is racist and insensitive".
Sometimes the offended parties cannot speak up when something is morally or ethically wrong. It is then that others must speak up and say something.
TS
(This post was edited by troutboy on Nov 13, 2008, 2:41 PM)
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billl7
Nov 13, 2008, 3:02 PM
Post #32 of 61
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Tree_wrangler wrote: In reply to: It is not about the one who is dead. It is about the sensitivities of the living ones who have lost someone. I get it. But I think our point is being missed. They're not here, and if they were, and they're offended by Mr. "TKubit", then that's their business to tell him to go F$$$ himself, not yours. I guarantee that, coming from them, he'd take the criticism quite seriously. Notice that I haven't slandered any dead people. I think it's in poor form, but, I think that verbally assaulting folks for a casual slip of the lip, or trying to find humor in the dark is even more disrespectful and totally unproductive.
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Tree_wrangler
Nov 13, 2008, 3:03 PM
Post #33 of 61
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You make good and valid arguments, but you're still missing some facets to this.
In reply to: You cannot defend insensitive comments, no matter how hard you try.
I don't need to try. Everybody makes insensitive comments some times, even you. That doesn't mean that "You're a Fucking Asshole" (to quote an earlier post). People, particularly in this country, need to learn that being offended is inevitable. Their response to the offense is more important than the offense itself. Brush it off.
There is a basic disconnect of world views here. Most folks assume that if someone says something insensitive or offensive, that they are intentionally being so.
Mine is that almost nobody is really and truly mean spirited and insensitive. Sometimes they just forget to watch their mouths, or they've got a headache, or they're stressed, or they were beaten as youngsters, etc. But I still believe that everybody means well, and a little tolerance and "lightening up" is the only way that you can connect with them, and maybe, help them resolve their issue that leads them to an insensitive comment. Not, "You're a fucking asshole".
In reply to: Just because nobody saw them (this time) does not make it right.
Nobody said that a little callous humor is "right". I just don't think that it is automatically "wrong". Particularly when the judgement comes from folks who's "caring" is pretense at best.
In reply to: It would certainly be morally correct to still tell that person, "Dude, using the N word is racist and insensitive".
OK, I'm socialized enough to buy that, but that's quite tactfully stated and has an air of respect.....unlike, say....."You're a fucking asshole"
In reply to: Sometimes the offended parties cannot speak up when something is morally or ethically wrong. It is then that others must speak up and say something
OK. We just need to remember that the offending party is a person too. Not a monster. Unless of course, they're a monster.
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crimpandgo
Nov 13, 2008, 3:34 PM
Post #34 of 61
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TKubik wrote: onceahardman wrote: In reply to: Apparently saying that this climber fell and cracked his head open and his brains spilled out onto the ground is more appropriate than to use an indirect reference to such an event. Dude, you are being a knucklehead. Do you have a link to a report/news story, saying that a fellow climber's brain matter was on the ground, but that he/she is now "stable"? I'd be interested in knowing what actually happened, and what the injured's REAL condition is. That's what I&A is for, not for "cute" euphemisms for horrific injuries. First of all, this thread was started to gather information about the accident. I didn't start this to make "cute euphemisms" (on a side not, I don't know where you are quoting cute from because I sure didn't say I was being cute, nor did I intend for it to be cute in any way), I was hoping that someone would have info regarding the accident. Mainly I wanted to know whether or not it was equipment/bolt failure, or mistake. I happen to know one of the search and rescue persons that performed the rescue. His girlfriend, one of my climbing partners, told me that there was brain matter spilled but, as of yesterday, he was doing fine. I have no link to the story because, as stated in the original post, I could not find anything.
These two statements don't usually go together. It takes a lot to "spill" brain matter.. and the person usually isn't "fine" the next day.
Either it was not brain matter, which I am inclined to believe,, or the person really isn't fine... make up your mind
(This post was edited by crimpandgo on Nov 13, 2008, 3:36 PM)
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socalclimber
Nov 13, 2008, 3:40 PM
Post #35 of 61
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blah blah blah blah.... So, does anyone know what the fuck happened?
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onceahardman
Nov 13, 2008, 5:50 PM
Post #37 of 61
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In reply to: Either it was not brain matter, which I am inclined to believe,, or the person really isn't fine... make up your mind
I agree completely. that's why I'm trying to get TKubik to find someone who knows about this.
So far, he is the ONLY ONE who has even heard of it.
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tigerlilly
Nov 13, 2008, 6:01 PM
Post #38 of 61
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onceahardman wrote: I agree completely. that's why I'm trying to get TKubik to find someone who knows about this. So far, he is the ONLY ONE who has even heard of it.
I just got back from a week in Red Rocks and did hear of an accident, but no details. I saw a chopper twice, but didn't think it looked like a rescue chopper - little round bubble body, not like the longer rescue ones I've seen (not that I have seen many). Didn't look big enough for a gurney, so I didn't think much of it. Someone else in my party heard of an accident on Panty Wall involving a medivac. That is the limit of my nth-hand knowledge.
Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery to the injured person.
Kathy
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Tree_wrangler
Nov 13, 2008, 6:09 PM
Post #39 of 61
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In reply to: That's great. I'm so glad we have your "guarantee"...What does that mean exactly? Do I get my money back if TKubik doesn't take the criticism seriously?
Since most people really mean well, it's pretty likely that he'd "feel bad" if the "injured" party communicated that to him.
And you know it, or else you know absolutely zilch about people. By the way, "You're being an asshole right now". (And you know it) (notice that I didn't say that you ARE an asshole, cause you're probably not, but who knows?)
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onceahardman
Nov 13, 2008, 6:28 PM
Post #40 of 61
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In reply to: Since most people really mean well, it's pretty likely that he'd "feel bad" if the "injured" party communicated that to him.
I don't really care about his "feelings." I care about his actions. Which were initially pretty jive, but then he took it back. That's good.
As of now, I would just like to know what happened, and what the REAL condition of the apparent brain injured victim is.
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jman
Nov 13, 2008, 6:31 PM
Post #41 of 61
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Personally if I was TKubik I would not share or post anything else about this accident with how other's have taken over this thread and nitpicked TKubik's every word. IMO I see this as a thread where TKubik was trying to share some information, but got attacked by folks being overly PC and jumping to conclusions and making judgements.
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Tree_wrangler
Nov 13, 2008, 6:36 PM
Post #42 of 61
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In reply to: I don't really care about his "feelings." I care about his actions. Which were initially pretty jive, but then he took it back. That's good.
Fair enough.
In reply to: As of now, I would just like to know what happened, and what the REAL condition of the apparent brain injured victim is.
I'm curious to know the series of incidents that created the accident. I'm certainly hoping that any injury was minimal and that his "think bucket" is not damaged. That would be a bitter pill to swallow.
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xtrmecat
Nov 13, 2008, 7:43 PM
Post #44 of 61
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" does this apply to your kids, too? i find most parents love dead kid jokes...i mean, what's funnier than jokes about dead kids; see, the humor is in the idea that our kids are precious so, lose a kid and hilarity ensues...hey, we should include pictures, too! "
Yes this includes my kids. They seem to have developed the same sense of humor and values, go figure. My parents are OK with it also, as are my grandchildren. Maybe you are taking yourself and these comments too seriously, we are not even sure anyone died, or even injured, just know someone needed rescue assistance. If people are that damn sensitive I really doubt they would be searching RC.noob for comfort and information as to the demise of a loved one, and if they are I see nothing I have said that warrants an apology, and if it was my sister that fell and busted open her noodle then I would laugh,not at the accident, but at someones ability to come up with original writing description of a common injury. That is just how some of us open minded people are. Not that the accident is funny, but the creativity is. Some peoples humor around the time of my grandsons death was the only time I smiled for over a month. Wasn't morbid or disrespectful. Just relief from reality for a moment, and I really needed it, and that is never a bad thing.
I actually opened this thread to find out what the particulars are, and am surprised that some just need to argue about their morals and beliefs as to proper conduct of others. Look closely and see that one moderator wrote anything on this thread and it most certainly doesn't seem to be a morals pushing post to me. Hmmmm.
Bob
Also if you would like to have a bigger affect on people and have them look at your writing with more interest and respect, then the shift key could become you best friend. Lazy writing on anything important would never give me cause to take it seriously.
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Tree_wrangler
Nov 13, 2008, 8:08 PM
Post #45 of 61
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In reply to: and am surprised that some just need to argue about their morals and beliefs as to proper conduct of others
You shouldn't be suprised. It was either here or "who's the hottest climbing chick". As much as I appreciate that thread, I've just got nothing to add, especially when there's a soapbox available elsewhere.
Maybe I could start an argument in "who's the hottest climbing dude".
Opening argument: It's me.
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troutboy
Nov 13, 2008, 8:16 PM
Post #46 of 61
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Tree_wrangler wrote: Maybe I could start an argument in "who's the hottest climbing dude". Opening argument: It's me.
Would not work. In order to have a reasonable debate, the premise must be realistic.
Now if we say, for example, it's me...
no scratch that, same logic.
TS
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jdefazio
Nov 13, 2008, 8:18 PM
Post #47 of 61
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xtrmecat wrote: <snip>...a bunch of stuff that could be grammatically torn to shreds...<snip> Also if you would like to have a bigger affect effect on people and have them look at your writing with more interest and respect, then the shift key could become you r best friend. Lazy writing on anything important would never give me cause to take it seriously.
omgz th4n ur n0t s3r10us 3ith3r!!!!!!!!
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TKubik
Nov 13, 2008, 8:34 PM
Post #48 of 61
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Wow, this has blown up since last night. When I said that he spilled brain matter and that he was fine, I was paraphrasing because the poster I was responding to was already aware of the status. By fine, I meant alive. Tree Wrangler, you are absolutely correct that I would have no problem apologizing to the victim had he/she showed up and said that they did not appreciate my choice of words. On that note, I will not be posting in this thread again until I can find out what happened.
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boardcrazzy
Nov 16, 2008, 5:14 AM
Post #49 of 61
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For what it's worth, I was at Panty Wall with my wife when the rescue crews showed up. The accident wasn't at Panty Wall. We left Panty Wall for the first pull out parking lot while the chopper was circling. We saw it land and pick up the victim.
If you're hiking from the parking lot to Panty Wall, and stop at the first left turn as you're going down the hill (100 m maybe), the chopper was picking up the victim in the gully below and to the right. There were a number of rescue personnel on a ledge above the gully floor where they secured the victim and lowered him/her to the gully floor. I'm not sure if there are any climbs on the wall above where the resuce took place, but by looking from the distance I was at, I would say no. My guess is that it was a hiker.
Please keep in mind, I don't know Red Rocks that well, and havn't looked at a guide book to confirm the area. However, the rock above the accident didn't look like it contained enough verticle to host any actual routes.
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freerangequark
Nov 19, 2008, 5:07 AM
Post #50 of 61
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Has anyone heard anything else on this incident or the current condition of the injured person?
Thanks,
Glenn
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