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Lazlo
Nov 14, 2008, 3:15 AM
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One thing I'm always trying to perfect, is an efficient ascending technique. My current fav is 2:1 with a Gri-gri and a left-handed ascender w/ footloop. efficient on energy. Easy to begin a descent for any reason.
I thought up another one today at work, which I promptly tried at home with an aid hook off my door-jam.
What are you favorite ascending methods? Why? And in what situations? Slab, overhanging, vertical?
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coolcat83
Nov 14, 2008, 3:24 AM
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frog for just about everything but low angle slabs, then traditional two handed/foot loop technique.
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coastal_climber
Nov 14, 2008, 5:09 AM
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Standard 2 jugs/aiders. Simple and fast when you have it dialed.
>Cam
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suilenroc
Nov 14, 2008, 5:14 AM
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Lazlo wrote: One thing I'm always trying to perfect, is an efficient ascending technique. My current fav is 2:1 with a Gri-gri and a left-handed ascender w/ footloop. efficient on energy. Easy to begin a descent for any reason. I thought up another one today at work, which I promptly tried at home with an aid hook off my door-jam. What are you favorite ascending methods? Why? And in what situations? Slab, overhanging, vertical?
I do not do much ascending anymore but the method you spoke of is my favorite. Mainly because i feel pretty confident in a grigri over many other devices. Additionally, i like that i can add a life line directly from my harness to the ascender as a "backup" in case i get the grigri clogg with something.
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majid_sabet
Nov 14, 2008, 6:55 AM
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(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Dec 18, 2008, 5:59 AM)
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climbingaggie03
Nov 14, 2008, 8:32 AM
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I don't know if this is the standard set up or not, but my fav way so far is to have one aider on each jug, and have my daisy attached to my top jug so that when I stand on my bottom jug and slide my top jug up, all I have to do is lean back and I'm on the daisy.
When I'm actually jugging, I switch back and forth, if it's slabby to vertical i don't really sit on my daisy, I just walk up the rope cause I have an aider on each jug, if it gets overhanging, I sit on my top jug and stand on my bottom one. It's not ideal for over hanging/free hanging jugs, but it's great for vertical or less, and I don't have to switch from one system to another mid jug.
I go back and forth between tying in short and trailing a gri-gri, if the gri-gri will self feed, then i love it, otherwise I prefer to tie in short, depends on the rope.
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pmyche
Nov 14, 2008, 2:22 PM
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TradMan80
Dec 12, 2008, 11:06 PM
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Mate can I ask have you ever heard of a 'basic'? - Used just above the chest, which the rope locks into - haveing a one way camming device - making the device slide up the rope, but can not release or slide down the rope. What size sling do you use for your lower ascender? |
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pmyche
Dec 13, 2008, 6:31 PM
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TradMan80
Dec 17, 2008, 7:55 AM
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Pmyche, Fatigue is a major factor in regards to the endurance of a climber. Considering using the standard tech. there is a lot of stress on the climber, and depending on the distance to ascend, how many times have you done it and felt little uncomfort in the lower back..? A chest harness, a basic (weight being 58grams) is designed to take the weight at the centre of gravity [cg] - being the middle of the climber. Using the basic, the stress point is limited, and the weight is taken up correctly. Meaning on long stints ie. 80m or so, resting for a period of time to reduce the onset of fatigue is easy as sitting back in the harness.
Also preventing "the swing" which is created everytime you try and balance using one ascender to pull up on. Both great tech. under different conditions.
Thanks
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shimanilami
Dec 17, 2008, 3:50 PM
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I've been liking the 2 ascenders + gri-gri approach lately. I use the basic ascender method for vertical or slabby jugging, but take advantage of the gri-gri when cleaning traverses.
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holdplease2
Dec 17, 2008, 4:38 PM
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When having to ascend fixed ropes or climbing in a party of three where I will be ascending free-hanging rope, I use a Petzl kroll with my chest harness. This is a piece of gear that is usually with me on a wall because I use this, combined with a pulley, as my hauling device most of the time.
Additionally, I do keep the daisy short to the bottom ascender. This is because if the top ascender cuts loose after passing gear or when jumaring, you fall onto the bottom ascender. Its not recommended to take a 3-4 foot fall onto the bottom toothed ascender.
-Kate.
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TradMan80
Dec 17, 2008, 9:30 PM
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Kate, always good to get a second opinion, good to hear yours. If you get a moment explain how you use kroll when hauling? Always keen for new tech. Thanks
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holdplease2
Dec 17, 2008, 10:58 PM
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Hi Michael:
I like to use a Kroll/Pulley system when hauling for the following reasons:
* The croll serves as a nice backup ascender
* Sometimes I fix high from a great bivy and the kroll allows for easy and smooth jumaring of fixed lines. Any bouncing is a no-no when jugging, as it prevents the rope from sawing on un-noticed edges. All noticed edges should be protected!! Weighted ropes cut wicked fast.
* I can combine it with small or large pulleys, depending on my load. I have pulleys ranging from 1 inch to 4 inches.
* The croll/pulley system, they way I rig it, is not a rigid device, meaning that there is less chance of the system being under some weird force from torque caused by me setting it up at the wrong angle, irregularities in the rock causing problems, or whatever.
Here's how I use the Kroll to haul.
I tie two loops through the top hole in the croll with 5/8 webbing and then place this webbing and the clip-in point of my pulley into a locking oval biner. The kroll should hang just an inch or so below the bottom of the pulley. THen I clip some pins in the bottom hole of the Kroll to weight it. Now it works just like a Petzl Protraxion but with flexibility in the size of the pulley, the ability to separate the pulley and the ratcheting device for other uses, and without the rigidity which has been known to cause failure of integrated hauling mechanisms.
Sometimes, though, I use a KONG Block Roll to haul, because I like the pulley size and its a nice device. Still, I always have my Kroll. If we launch the hauling device or an ascender or get into a situation where we separate the hauls or need to do some weird stuff it comes in handy.
:)
-Kate.
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pmyche
Dec 17, 2008, 11:25 PM
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holdplease2
Dec 17, 2008, 11:59 PM
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Yeah, if you use adjustable daisies your situation is still good if you fall onto your bottom ascender when its at your waist.
However, I use regular daisies, the long ones from FISH, meaning my daisy is almost five feet long. The only time my top ascender popped was when I was cleaning a traverse about 12 feet below an anchor, so there wasn't much rope out.
When the top ascender popped after passing a piece, the bottom ascender was at my waist, but just clipped into the end of the daisy that was girthed to my tie in points. My backup system was a series of knots, not uncommon.
The resulting fall when the top ascender popped was a five foot fall directly onto the teeth of my bottom ascender with little rope out to take the shock. NOT good. Of course I had a backup knot, but it was not close enough to catch a 5 footer, more in line to catch a 10 footer or so if both popped.
Now I clip a biner in to shorten my bottom daisy to avoid the same scenario. I remember my belayer and I looked at each other wide eyed, never having thought of this scenario before.
-Kate.
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TradMan80
Dec 18, 2008, 5:48 AM
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Versatility of a Kroll. I must say I have used that technique before – in an emergency, when the pulley which has been assigned to all you hauling tasks found its way back 300 meters below.
I’m glad to hear other climbers talk about using an Ascender’s – or just one “to aid a fall”. Long story short, completed another advanced alpine course in Canada last week, and it’s really ashame that we can not teach any techniques using such a device “to aid a fall”, because its primary role or use is for static loading only! And yes I know it is a technique which comes with self practice and training. There is one concern climbers have when using the Ascender to arrest a fall when seconding (cleaning) or leading is; that such a device may come off the rope when dynamic loads are placed on it in such a way which would cause the crab, cam (which ever it may be called) to jerk in a downwards motion far enough for the rope to find its way out of the Ascender. Keeping in mind the device works better when there is a downward load placed on the device. Why? Because it creates resistance or force between the cam and the rope that locks on, and continues to hold under heavy loads. Great device if you ask me.
The Gri Gri. The so called ants pants of the Descending/Ascending world. Don’t forget about the “Faders Sum” which can be used on ropes <8mm to >11mm. Same applications as the Gri Gri but the variation of rope sizes.
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cintune
Dec 18, 2008, 7:55 AM
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A redirect running the free end of the rope up and back down through a pulley on the upper (foot loop) ascender (ropemen here, but whatever) makes the standing-up-and-pulling-slack-before-sitting-back-down part a tad quicker and smoother. More bulky clanky gear to have to deal with, but hey, it's a technique.
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cintune
Dec 19, 2008, 3:40 AM
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Just a stretchy lanyard between the two ascenders, not entirely necessary and it can get in the way, but I dread dropping stuff.
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