I do not own any and have never pounded any pitons into cracks... Can't really imagine a situation in an "emergency" where you'd take the time to hammer one in... That being said i do carry my Cliff Hanger Bolt Gun, you know for those emergencies...
i was just curious i know they are used rarely anymore for aid but do you guys still use them for emergency purposes on virgin rock?
Yes a pin is better'n a bolt in some wilderness FA situations, for example. If on a high and wild FA attempt I'd want a small selection of blades and pins, unless its patently obvious they won't be needed.
For example when we started up this climb we didn't know if it would go free or not, for starters. It has gone all free but for this pitch.[/img]
That's Brutus of Wyde, my Master, doing the 2nd ascent of this pitch. Burl led it the first time and placed one Lost Arrow at the top of the dihedral to protect the exit moves. Yet at the base of this pitch I
placed an evil bolt (two of them actually) because all the cracks there are all 'movable blocks' rendering that belay station a scary motherfucker! Hanging block over our heads to boot!
Looking down from that belay anchor[/img] EXPOOOOOOOOSSSSED!
Can't tell you where it is I'm afraid. Trade secrets.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Nov 20, 2008, 5:39 PM)
Pins are definitely a must have on alpine rock FAs and or winter mixed routes. A couple blades, a couple LAs, and I might bring a leeper or 2 and some sawed off baby angles sometimes.
Oh, and the FA shown above is probably over in the rock creek drainage, based on rock type of the climb, in conjunction with the more volcanic red stuff in the background. It's not on bear creek spire, but probably one of the south facing faces down closer to the lodge. There's plenty of room for all of us out there in the sierra.
On established routes they don't, unless you're going up to specifically replace an old mank (nessesary) fixed pin.
On new routes, a small selection of blades and LA's are usefull.
I usually carry 2 blades (one short thin, one long thin). 2 LA's (one short thin, one short thick. 1 beak 1 rurp couple hooks (one talon or grappling and a bat hook)
Depends on the route of course, sometimes I just carry "clean" gear.
Usually if the pins go so does the bolt kit. For that I carry a hand drill and rarely drill a bolt bigger than 1/4 in X 1.5 in in granite.
i was just curious i know they are used rarely anymore for aid but do you guys still use them for emergency purposes on virgin rock?
Most of my climbing is doing back country FA's, so a few of them are a welcome and sometimes needed part to my rack. I also carry a talon and a cam hook and a #2 pecker. They've saved my bacon a couple of times.
spell edit
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Nov 20, 2008, 8:47 PM)
I do carry them from time to time, particularly in the winter. A solid LA is way more confidence inspiring in icy cracks them some tiny TCU, and knifeblades fit where nothing else will.
i was just curious i know they are used rarely anymore for aid but do you guys still use them for emergency purposes on virgin rock?
Clean aid is the preferred style nowadays, but there are plenty of routes that require a hammer. There still ain't no clean substitute for a RURP or circle head, my friend. (Which is fine with me. Hammering is fun, IMO.)
Ok, I voted yes, but this deserves qualification. When heading to the high moutains (Himalayas, Andes, Alaska) I carry a selection of angles, and a couple of knife blades. When it comes to retreating, they make a more sure-fire anchor than some passive gear, and I carry very, very few cams into the mountains. Plus, a knife blade can be placed securely in a thin crack, where the only size nut I can get, I would not want to rely whole heartedly on. You could make an argument for leaving multiple pieces behind, but when you're doing alpine routes, you don't have enough gear to leave behind a couple pieces at each anchor.
Lastly, a piton does cause some damage to the rock, but minimal if placed properly, removed properly, and pins aren't continually driven into the same scars. The point is they can be removed, where as a bolt can not... but then again, I'd always prefer a sling around a rock horn or tree... or go bold an stuff a knotted sling into a crack.
They definitely have there place in alpine / mixed climbing situations. I have had two specific times alpine climbing when a good pin was the only solid piece in my belay.
They definitely have there place in alpine / mixed climbing situations. I have had two specific times alpine climbing when a good pin was the only solid piece in my belay.
Heh, once I belayed my buddy off 2 fixed pins and a nut for an easy pitch (direct from the anchors, and I untied...). After he got a belay sorted I pulled the nut and on of the pins straight out with my hand... A buddy said that the pin had been bomber two days before (when it was warmer). Moving rock or expanding/contracting pin?
They definitely have there place in alpine / mixed climbing situations. I have had two specific times alpine climbing when a good pin was the only solid piece in my belay.
Heh, once I belayed my buddy off 2 fixed pins and a nut for an easy pitch (direct from the anchors, and I untied...). After he got a belay sorted I pulled the nut and on of the pins straight out with my hand... A buddy said that the pin had been bomber two days before (when it was warmer). Moving rock or expanding/contracting pin?
Pitons on my trad rack? Yes. In fact near 80 to 90% of the time depending on where I'm climbing. Even when I'm not carrying pins it's likely I still have my hammer with me, sometimes for cleaning purposes (both cracks and gear), other times for re-seating pins or to paste/tap a nut jsut to get 'something' in.
The catch? Well, I'm not climbing in the same area as most of you, and the climbing I do is typically not on well travelled routes, or on route that are in process of becoming routes. I also climb in the Canadian Rockies, a place which I affectionately call the "Great Canadian Chossies". I typically carry anywhere from 2 to a dozen plus pins. On new routes that otherwise would have death falls, and there are cracks, just ones that won't take anything else, I'll leave the pin in place. It is possible to do a minimum of possible damage with placing pins, in fact many times that excavated placement for a nut on new ground is more obvious than the knifeblade placement 15 feet above.
There are areas I don't bring the steal (unless I'm plannign a route that requires them), one of those areas is the Bugaboos.
I'd rather use a pin than a bolt, that said I do bolt too.
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