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macblaze
Dec 12, 2008, 12:33 AM
Post #26 of 62
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OP post count: still at 1 Replies: 24 Not bad for such a weak troll
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cuchulainn1856
Dec 12, 2008, 7:26 AM
Post #27 of 62
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multi pitch sport IS rare, but its not bad actually. to anyone familiar with Kentucky Art's and Crafts (5.11a, R two pitches) at Dismal Rock, Kentucky, its a good face route with not a lot of options for pro besides the bolts. sure there's cracks 50 yards left and right, but hey, you'd be missing out on a great line by not bolting it. and a 200+ foot toprope is not gonna happen. so definitely not lame.
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Parkerkat
Dec 12, 2008, 3:30 PM
Post #28 of 62
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perhaps its not that it the point was missed..perhaps the point was useless and incorrect?..same ol trad vs. sport legitimacy arguement! ...can't we all just get along!? ; p
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boymeetsrock
Dec 12, 2008, 4:15 PM
Post #29 of 62
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Parkerkat wrote: perhaps its not that it the point was missed..perhaps the point was useless and incorrect?..same ol trad vs. sport legitimacy arguement! ...can't we all just get along!? ; p Me thinks you missed the point to. I was pointing out that this thread was started in the sport forum, presumably, to gather info on necessary equipment for leading multi-pitch sport routs. The move to the trad forum was unwarranted, IMO. The thread has nothign to do with trad vs. sport, nor did my comment. Oh yeah, F*** sport climbing!!
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Parkerkat
Dec 12, 2008, 4:20 PM
Post #30 of 62
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You can only fuck sport climbing if you promise to respect it in the morning..or at least leave a phone number on the bedside table....flowers are nice too! BTW...Whats a Cam? ; p (please don't answer that one lol)
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 12, 2008, 5:16 PM
Post #31 of 62
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cuchulainn1856 wrote: multi pitch sport IS rare, but its not bad actually. to anyone familiar with Kentucky Art's and Crafts (5.11a, R two pitches) at Dismal Rock, Kentucky, its a good face route with not a lot of options for pro besides the bolts. sure there's cracks 50 yards left and right, but hey, you'd be missing out on a great line by not bolting it. and a 200+ foot toprope is not gonna happen. so definitely not lame. Not to stray off topic, but it is impossible for a sport route to have an R rating. Bolts do not always equal sport.
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Johnny_Fang
Dec 12, 2008, 5:52 PM
Post #32 of 62
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Is Bacher-Yerian a trad climb? I always thought it was considered sport. My mistake, I guess.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 12, 2008, 7:45 PM
Post #33 of 62
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Johnny_Fang wrote: Is Bacher-Yerian a trad climb? I always thought it was considered sport. My mistake, I guess. Bacher-Yerian is absolutely a trad climb, probably more trad than most.
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ClimbinBob
Dec 13, 2008, 10:50 AM
Post #34 of 62
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It's a shame that no one is giving you a good answer to your inquiry. I highly recommend that you hire the services of a UIAA certified guide or school, as there is much to learn in trad climbing. You don't say where you are located, but there are many good and reputable courses located throughout the states. Years ago (I'm 52), there weren't the climbing gyms as there are today. Consequently, anyone who wanted to learn rope technique would apprentice themselves under the tutelage of a climber; perhaps in an Outward Bound school, Boy Scouts, or a college mountaineering program. All in all, my recommendation to you is to seek out qualified instructors. There are lots of climbers around, but as a consequence, many people that make careless and senseless mistakes. Get proper instruction, invest in quality gear, and take the trad routes one step at a time. I hope this helps. Good Luck! ClimbinBob
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roninthorne
Dec 13, 2008, 2:17 PM
Post #35 of 62
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shoo wrote: There is, but it's exceedingly rare and lame. Like all that stuff in the Verdon Gorge?
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dingus
Dec 13, 2008, 3:40 PM
Post #36 of 62
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Johnny_Fang wrote: Is Bacher-Yerian a trad climb? I always thought it was considered sport. My mistake, I guess. Bacher-Yerian is absolutely a trad climb, probably more trad than most. Ironic you'd state this. Tom Higgins is the guy who coined the term 'traditional (free) climbing.' He would not agree that BY is more trad than most. On the contrary, BY was a move away from the purest form of trad free climbing. Bachar hung from hooks to drill lead bolts - not a trad technique. But its no sport route I reckon. I dunno really - haven't climbed it. DMT
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 13, 2008, 6:28 PM
Post #37 of 62
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dingus wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Johnny_Fang wrote: Is Bacher-Yerian a trad climb? I always thought it was considered sport. My mistake, I guess. Bacher-Yerian is absolutely a trad climb, probably more trad than most. Ironic you'd state this. Tom Higgins is the guy who coined the term 'traditional (free) climbing.' He would not agree that BY is more trad than most. On the contrary, BY was a move away from the purest form of trad free climbing. Bachar hung from hooks to drill lead bolts - not a trad technique. But its no sport route I reckon. I dunno really - haven't climbed it. DMT It was ground up without pre-inspection. We could argue semantics all day, but it is certainly not a sport climb. It is more "trad" (whatever that means) than a lot of trad routes done today. I am not arguing ethics or saying that I am aligning myself with any style, just stating what I consider to be the general definition of what constitutes what a trad climb is. I think we can both agree that bolts do not equal sport. Josh
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dingus
Dec 13, 2008, 9:53 PM
Post #38 of 62
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blueeyedclimber wrote: dingus wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Johnny_Fang wrote: Is Bacher-Yerian a trad climb? I always thought it was considered sport. My mistake, I guess. Bacher-Yerian is absolutely a trad climb, probably more trad than most. Ironic you'd state this. Tom Higgins is the guy who coined the term 'traditional (free) climbing.' He would not agree that BY is more trad than most. On the contrary, BY was a move away from the purest form of trad free climbing. Bachar hung from hooks to drill lead bolts - not a trad technique. But its no sport route I reckon. I dunno really - haven't climbed it. DMT It was ground up without pre-inspection. We could argue semantics all day, but it is certainly not a sport climb. It is more "trad" (whatever that means) than a lot of trad routes done today. I am not arguing ethics or saying that I am aligning myself with any style, just stating what I consider to be the general definition of what constitutes what a trad climb is. I think we can both agree that bolts do not equal sport. Josh Oh yeah just a semantics things. I agree with your point. Just passing conversation tis all mate. DMT
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wyoclimb
Dec 14, 2008, 9:40 PM
Post #39 of 62
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2 places with epic multi pitch sport rts Red rocks & El potero chico n red rocks has awsome trad multipitch 2
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wyoclimb
Dec 14, 2008, 9:43 PM
Post #40 of 62
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Registered: Oct 12, 2007
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Learn how to use a reverso & everything that entails power pts n all that stuff
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Johnny_Fang
Dec 15, 2008, 11:09 PM
Post #41 of 62
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dingus wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: dingus wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Johnny_Fang wrote: Is Bacher-Yerian a trad climb? I always thought it was considered sport. My mistake, I guess. Bacher-Yerian is absolutely a trad climb, probably more trad than most. Ironic you'd state this. Tom Higgins is the guy who coined the term 'traditional (free) climbing.' He would not agree that BY is more trad than most. On the contrary, BY was a move away from the purest form of trad free climbing. Bachar hung from hooks to drill lead bolts - not a trad technique. But its no sport route I reckon. I dunno really - haven't climbed it. DMT It was ground up without pre-inspection. We could argue semantics all day, but it is certainly not a sport climb. It is more "trad" (whatever that means) than a lot of trad routes done today. I am not arguing ethics or saying that I am aligning myself with any style, just stating what I consider to be the general definition of what constitutes what a trad climb is. I think we can both agree that bolts do not equal sport. Josh Oh yeah just a semantics things. I agree with your point. Just passing conversation tis all mate. DMT i looked in to this and can't figure it out, so again with the apologies, but do people place natural protection when they climb B-Y? I see that someone has tried it without the bolts, only slinging knobs, but when most climb it don't they only use the bolts, or are there cam/nut placements to be had? Or am I confused about what the definition of trad is? Does trad mean the route was established ground-up, even if said route is a bolt every three feet with no natural protection? That seems completely wrong to me. I always thought trad meant primarily natural protection with no implication about the way it was established.
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dingus
Dec 16, 2008, 12:39 PM
Post #42 of 62
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Yes you are confused. Ask jt512 what sport climbing is... he knows EVERYTHING. DMT
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jt512
Dec 16, 2008, 3:05 PM
Post #45 of 62
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USnavy wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: suilenroc wrote: n00b + n00b = danger! basicly you will need all the gear required to single pitch, plus maby a few extra locking biners and webbing/extra cord. Plus a whole lot more… more belay devices... More belay devices for multi-pitch than single pitch? There's one I haven't heard before. Jay
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apeman_e
Jan 9, 2009, 7:56 PM
Post #46 of 62
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Registered: Nov 21, 2008
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"more trad" = trad-ier? and if it's the even tradier than that? trad-iest? most trady?
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Gmburns2000
Jan 9, 2009, 8:57 PM
Post #47 of 62
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Not to stray off topic, but it is impossible for a sport route to have an R rating. Bolts do not always equal sport. Definitely not true. There's a route at Garden of the Gods that is only a sport route (you could plug a couple of cams, but why?). The bolts are spaced out well enough to protect the various difficult sections, but it isn't gym spacing. There's virtually no gear in between most bolts, so all you have are the bolts. The key is that this follows a thin, ramp-like arrete (about a foot wide), and the climb, for the most part, stays on the arrete itself and doesn't venture much to either side. Now, the route is only about 5.7, but a fall from any of these bolts, even if only a couple of feet above the bolt, will very likely send the climber to either side of the arrete, leaving the rope dragging across the rock while the climber swings into open space or into other features on the rock. The rock at the Garden is so soft that I wouldn't expect it to cut the rope, but I could see a fall with enough swing to send the the climber helplessly into the various other features on the sides of the arrete. I spoke with a few people about this route, and they all agreed that it could have easily been rated R, despite it being sport just because of the potentially shitty fall. And I can't say that I know of any bolts popping there, but one friend claims that there are sections of the Garden where he would never want to fall, regardless of falling on gear or a bolt. The rock is that soft in some places.
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Johnny_Fang
Jan 9, 2009, 10:54 PM
Post #48 of 62
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Gmburns2000 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Not to stray off topic, but it is impossible for a sport route to have an R rating. Bolts do not always equal sport. Definitely not true. There's a route at Garden of the Gods that is only a sport route (you could plug a couple of cams, but why?). The bolts are spaced out well enough to protect the various difficult sections, but it isn't gym spacing. There's virtually no gear in between most bolts, so all you have are the bolts. The key is that this follows a thin, ramp-like arrete (about a foot wide), and the climb, for the most part, stays on the arrete itself and doesn't venture much to either side. Now, the route is only about 5.7, but a fall from any of these bolts, even if only a couple of feet above the bolt, will very likely send the climber to either side of the arrete, leaving the rope dragging across the rock while the climber swings into open space or into other features on the rock. The rock at the Garden is so soft that I wouldn't expect it to cut the rope, but I could see a fall with enough swing to send the the climber helplessly into the various other features on the sides of the arrete. I spoke with a few people about this route, and they all agreed that it could have easily been rated R, despite it being sport just because of the potentially shitty fall. And I can't say that I know of any bolts popping there, but one friend claims that there are sections of the Garden where he would never want to fall, regardless of falling on gear or a bolt. The rock is that soft in some places. i've been trying to figure out these definitions, too, and here is the best i can come up with: ground-up bolt placements, run out with danger of seriously hurting or killing yourself, no gear other than quickdraws, 5.8 and below = sport ground-up bolt placements, run out with danger of seriously hurting or killing yourself, no gear other than quickdraws, 5.11 and up = "trad" of course, i'm being sarcastic. i've been on many run out easy sport climbs where a fall from certain sections would mean broken bones or death. but because they are easy, it seems that certain ancient hardmen consider them sport.
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USnavy
Jan 10, 2009, 5:50 AM
Post #49 of 62
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jt512 wrote: USnavy wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: suilenroc wrote: n00b + n00b = danger! basicly you will need all the gear required to single pitch, plus maby a few extra locking biners and webbing/extra cord. Plus a whole lot more… more belay devices... More belay devices for multi-pitch than single pitch? There's one I haven't heard before. Jay If you drop your belay device on a single pitch route its not very hard to retrieve it now is it? Sure you can use a munter hitch to belay with but its kind of a bitch to belay a leader on half-ropes with a munter . No you don’t NEED it, but then again you don’t need anything until said need arises, do you?
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carbonrx8
Jan 10, 2009, 6:22 AM
Post #50 of 62
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macblaze wrote: OP post count: still at 1 Replies: 24 Not bad for such a weak troll So if somebody posts an incredibly weak troll and the subsequent thread develops into interesting and informative discussion (which I am not suggesting this one has just quite yet), is that the climbing forum equivalent of a pink point? Or is that more like setting up a toprope then forgetting to tie in, then calling your accent a solo?
(This post was edited by carbonrx8 on Jan 10, 2009, 6:23 AM)
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