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saxfiend
Feb 6, 2005, 6:03 PM
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Sorry if this is a subject that's already been covered, but I couldn't find anything in a forum thread search.
I just bought my first dynamic rope and have some questions on handling and care (aside from the obvious ones like keeping it clean, avoiding heat and UV, etc.):
1. Is there anything I should do to break in or prepare the rope before its first use? I notice it feels fairly stiff compared to the ropes I've climbed on.
2. What exactly is flaking a rope? I think I understand the general idea -- laying it so it doesn't tangle or kink as it's fed out to the climber -- but is there a specific accepted technique for doing this?
3. How should I coil the rope for storage (in the rope bag)? As a sailor, I'm pretty accustomed to rope handling and coiling when I'm on a boat, but I have a feeling a lot of this doesn't transfer to a climbing rope.
Thanks for any answers and/or additional advice!
JL
PS -- In case you need to know, this rope is a 60m, 10.2 mm Mammut rope.
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alderak
Feb 6, 2005, 6:14 PM
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Flaking the rope involves finding one end, and laying it on the ground and then pulling the rest of the rope to a point above it and then letting it fall one armfull at a time... just let it lay as it lands. This is done just to make sure that the rope isn't tangled before the leader takes off.
I don't do anything special to a new rope other than untangle it from the godawful coil that they usually come from the manufacturer in. It'll become softer and more pliant as you use it.
When I put the rope in the bag I just flake it, with the only obvious change being that you tie the ends of the rope to the little loops on the tarp part of the bag, just to keep track of them. Most of the time you won't have to reflake it when you get ready to lead again, just roll out the bag, untie the "top" end and get to climbing.
Hope this helps,
Davy
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climbinginchico
Feb 6, 2005, 6:25 PM
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When I got my Mammut rope, it came with a booklet that described how to do everything you're asking...
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nfo
Feb 8, 2005, 4:43 AM
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Is this it?
PDF file
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saxfiend
Feb 8, 2005, 3:26 PM
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In reply to: Flaking the rope involves finding one end, and laying it on the ground and then pulling the rest of the rope to a point above it and then letting it fall one armfull at a time... just let it lay as it lands. This is done just to make sure that the rope isn't tangled before the leader takes off. I don't do anything special to a new rope other than untangle it from the godawful coil that they usually come from the manufacturer in. It'll become softer and more pliant as you use it. When I put the rope in the bag I just flake it, with the only obvious change being that you tie the ends of the rope to the little loops on the tarp part of the bag, just to keep track of them. Most of the time you won't have to reflake it when you get ready to lead again, just roll out the bag, untie the "top" end and get to climbing. Hope this helps, Davy
In reply to: Is this it? PDF file
JL
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andrewph
Feb 8, 2005, 4:35 PM
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The information in the PDF is really Good.
concerning coiling the rope, in my experiance of sailing we would ussually coil the rope in loops, though some may do it I dont like to do this with climbing rope! (not sure why). and flaking it inot a rope bag is ussually the easiest thing to do. (little loops really help it not get tangled),
sometimes there are situations where I dont want to flake my rope onto the tarp and in these situations I use the method shown on page 21 of the pdf. though i will do it around my neck instead of over my arm.
If you do it from the middle it is often handy to tie it on your back with the ends, like a backpack. alternately if you do it right through from one end it can make it easy to flake for the next climb or if your carfull it may not even need flaking.
Andy
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el_jerko
Feb 8, 2005, 11:08 PM
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My $.02: Having tried many coils I found that I like the mountaineers coil the best. It does not twist the rope, it coils up fast, it is more compact than flaking into a bag, and you can strap it to your back. Also, you can chuck it off the top of the cliff to rap and it falls fairly tangle free.
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davidji
Feb 8, 2005, 11:22 PM
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In reply to: My $.02: Having tried many coils I found that I like the mountaineers coil the best. It does not twist the rope, it coils up fast, it is more compact than flaking into a bag, and you can strap it to your back. Also, you can chuck it off the top of the cliff to rap and it falls fairly tangle free.
The mountaineer's coil is the worst one I ever use for adding twists to your rope. It has it's advantages too though, which is why I sometimes still use it, although I'm sure several of my partners wish I wouldn't...
Anyway the butterfly coil doesn't kink your rope and straps easily to your back. You can convert the mountaineer's coil into a backpack style carry too, but it's real advantage is in carrying comfort as you just throw it over your shoulder. The mountaineer's coil looks like this:
http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/images/rope.jpg
Borrowed from http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_MiddleMark.htm
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el_jerko
Feb 9, 2005, 10:59 PM
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You are correct. I always called it a mountaineers coil, but according to your source I should have been calling it a butterfly coil. The butterfly coil is the bomb, that other coil really sucks.
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veganboyjosh
Feb 9, 2005, 11:34 PM
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i remember reading somewhere that the process the rope goes thru at the mfgr's when it's coiled for shipment/sale is such that it is not coiled, but rolled, and so when y9ou buy a new rope, it needs to be unrolled, not uncoiled. as in, end over end instead of taking one end and flaking it out. this will apparently get the kinks out automatically, or easier or something. since i have yet to actually buy a rope, and seeing as diffenret manufacturers prolyl prep their ropes differently, this could be way off.
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sheldon_purkiss
Dec 31, 2005, 2:33 PM
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This information is super-helpful guys. Just bought my own rope, and it indeed came all fubared; had to take 1/2 an hour to flake it out and untangle it. As the article above says, I'm sure there's an easier way, but I didn't find it. ;) After a night of lead climbing, going to flake my rope out now. Didn't come with a bag, so I'm using a duffel bag, which is too small, and ultimately useless for this baby. Going to mec.ca to order a rope bag!! Thanks for the helpful info.
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pico23
Jan 4, 2006, 5:29 AM
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the best way to get the kinks of a new rope out is to let it hang. since most of us aren't lucky enough to live on top of a cliff (i said most of us) then having one person take an end and walk with it seems to have worked for me.
coiling, i prefer a butterfly coil to anything else. the only thing i use a mountaineers coil for is the Kiwi coil for shortening the rope on snow or while doing running belays over easy terrain. butterfly works well and can be turned into a backpack and coils fast and without kinks. just flake and go.
rope bags are fairly expensive and useless. If I'm top roping i like a tarp but for leading the rope bag is just another piece of gear to keep track of. so i just use either a big plastic bag or a small tarp for TRing.
break in? just climb on it, it will get nice and soft over time. I remember a partners PMI rope that never seemed to break in. I hated that rope.
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nagatana
Dec 18, 2008, 10:45 AM
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I know this is an old thread, but I was looking for the Mammut rope care book nfo linked. Since the original location of seilfibel_030617-E-PDF.pdf changed, I e-mailed Mammut and they sent me the new link. It's also referred to as "Compact information about ropes on one click."
Hope this helps future (re)searchers.
(This post was edited by nagatana on Dec 18, 2008, 10:47 AM)
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duncanlennon
Dec 18, 2008, 12:47 PM
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Thanks very much. I was disappointed that the old link didn't work. My new Beal rope didn't come with anything.
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granite_grrl
Dec 18, 2008, 1:42 PM
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It is correct, a new rope should be unrolled, not uncoiled. I'll take a while to get the twists out if you didn't unroll it properly.
Butterfly coils are good, but if you have a rope bag just keep it in that.
One thing not mentioned by anyone here yet: try to keep your rope out of the dirt. Its amazing how many people don't even try to make an effort to do this. Dirty ropes are unpleasent to use and can wear out heavily used climbing hardwear faster (grit in the rope).
I'm not going to cover washing a rope, which you won't need to even think about for a while. But when you do there are many threads in this forum if you do a search.
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ladyscarlett
Dec 18, 2008, 7:57 PM
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I've heard something about having the leader tied in to the end of the rope that's sitting on top of the pile of rope (already flaked) can help prevent tangles while the leader is climbing.
Truth or fiction?
ls
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VivianB
Dec 19, 2008, 2:44 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: One thing not mentioned by anyone here yet: try to keep your rope out of the dirt. Its amazing how many people don't even try to make an effort to do this. Dirty ropes are unpleasent to use and can wear out heavily used climbing hardwear faster (grit in the rope).
Sorry to interrupt this thread. I'm a caver, not a climber, so we use a different kind of rope that is a bit more durable. All of my ropes have been slathered in mud many times.
One question/comment that I've always wondered about. Many many many times I've heard rock climbers say how bad it is to get dirt on ropes. But what about your chalk that you always use. I'm a geologist and the climbing chalk is usually made from a mineral called magnesite that is crushed. It is "dirt" without the organic stuff mixed in.
The crystals of the mineral are broken down to a very small size that would be able to penetrate the sheath of the rope much more easily than your average "dirt" from the ground. The tiny crystals in the chalk have microscopic sharp edges. I never understood why climbers don't like dirt, but are okay with chalk.
BTW, when I have to cut any of my muddy old caving ropes, it always amazes me how pristinely white the inside of the rope always is, no matter the color of the outside. That sheath really does a good job!
Vivian
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epoch
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Dec 19, 2008, 3:08 PM
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From my exposure to caving equipment, the ropes generally used are no different from recreational climbing ropes. They are static kernmantel ropes, but of a thicker variety. They have the same dry-coating. The durability comes from them being thicker, and not from a fundamental manufacturing difference.
I have had several ropes of mine go from brilliant bright colors to mud brown and when cut the cores are strikingly white, because of the sheaths, One of which was a 9.2 diameter rope. I've also had to cut a 1" (13mm) static covered in mud that, too, had a white core. The sheath is there to protect the core, which is the structural backbone of the rope.
(This post was edited by epoch on Dec 19, 2008, 3:09 PM)
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drfelatio
Dec 19, 2008, 4:06 PM
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epoch wrote: From my exposure to caving equipment, the ropes generally used are no different from recreational climbing ropes. They are static kernmantel ropes, but of a thicker variety. They have the same dry-coating. The durability comes from them being thicker, and not from a fundamental manufacturing difference.
Wait. Are you comparing static climbing rope to static caving rope, or are you comparing dynamic climbing rope to static caving rope?
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epoch
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Dec 19, 2008, 4:28 PM
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drfelatio wrote: epoch wrote: From my exposure to caving equipment, the ropes generally used are no different from recreational climbing ropes. They are static kernmantel ropes, but of a thicker variety. They have the same dry-coating. The durability comes from them being thicker, and not from a fundamental manufacturing difference. Wait. Are you comparing static climbing rope to static caving rope, or are you comparing dynamic climbing rope to static caving rope?
A static kernmantel rope to a static kernmantel rope. (Jim, if you're reading this, please correct me)
Many ropes are marketed as being able to serve multiple uses. A 13mm static rope can be marketed as a rescue rope, a heavy-duty recreational rappeling line, or a commercial rope (arborist, tower rigger, etc). Some ropes are manufactured with special fibers or weaves that could make them resistant to fire or float. Some weaves are structured differently for different applications - such as marine ropes and those cheap yellow ropes - and are a mix of polyester and/or nylon.
Saying that a static caving rope is substantially different than a static that climbers use is incorrect. It's a very general statement. Saying that xxx static caving rope is different from xxx static climbing rope may hold some weight, but the differences may only be as minor as thickness or a dry coating.
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drfelatio
Dec 19, 2008, 4:39 PM
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epoch wrote: drfelatio wrote: epoch wrote: From my exposure to caving equipment, the ropes generally used are no different from recreational climbing ropes. They are static kernmantel ropes, but of a thicker variety. They have the same dry-coating. The durability comes from them being thicker, and not from a fundamental manufacturing difference. Wait. Are you comparing static climbing rope to static caving rope, or are you comparing dynamic climbing rope to static caving rope? Ha! I read that again and understand where the confusion comes from. A static kernmantel rope to a static kernmantel rope. (Jim, if you're reading this, please correct me)
That's what I figured. Thanks for clarifying.
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