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Lazlo
Dec 21, 2008, 6:51 PM
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This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro.
Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended...
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Maddhatter
Dec 21, 2008, 6:57 PM
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Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended...
No. The free accent trumps the aid one.
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shoo
Dec 21, 2008, 7:48 PM
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Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended...
Good thing it's up to the FA and not RC.com.
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Maddhatter
Dec 21, 2008, 8:03 PM
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shoo wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... Good thing it's up to the FA and not RC.com.
Clean aid? Well then it doesn't really matter.
Beating iron into sweet free lines is ass-a-9 at best.
There are many more unclimbable things left to be nailed up. Then people will free them and the beat goes on. To just beat iron into a line until it becomes unnailable is just stupid. In this case it's sand stone in other places with harder rock types it could be different.
(This post was edited by Maddhatter on Dec 21, 2008, 8:16 PM)
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sungam
Dec 21, 2008, 8:45 PM
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Actually it's probably up to the 100+ chaps at miguel's that will beat your ass for nailing soft sandstone, but hey - whatever floats your boat.
I saw a pikter of that route and wanted to go climb it, till I found out the grade. 
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Lazlo
Dec 21, 2008, 8:49 PM
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sungam wrote: Actually it's probably up to the 100+ chaps at miguel's that will beat your ass for nailing soft sandstone, but hey - whatever floats your boat. I saw a pikter of that route and wanted to go climb it, till I found out the grade.
I could just imagine some green noob with a bunch of Pappy's ol pitons and snap links nailing up 'Kentucky'.........with a mob waiting for him at the bottom. Bad day.
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Maddhatter
Dec 21, 2008, 9:03 PM
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sungam wrote: Actually it's probably up to the 100+ chaps at miguel's that will beat your ass for nailing soft sandstone, but hey - whatever floats your boat. I saw a pikter of that route and wanted to go climb it, till I found out the grade.
There are still good lines to be nailed at the RRG.
I'm not saying never nail, soft sand stone or not.
The fishers are softer then the Red and have many lines that have to be nailed to be done. I'm cool with that.
It's more a case by case thing.
(This post was edited by Maddhatter on Dec 21, 2008, 9:05 PM)
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kyleshea
Dec 21, 2008, 10:06 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one.
does a kentucky accent trump others?
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Maddhatter
Dec 21, 2008, 10:18 PM
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kyleshea wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one. does a kentucky accent trump others?
Yes
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tradrenn
Jan 7, 2009, 9:32 PM
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Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended...
Was it intended ?
or
Was it aid because there was no one back then to free it ?
IMHO no it wouldn't be OK to hammer it, but I think it would be OK to do any route that goes hammerless such as Cobra Crack in Squamish that goes at C2.
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altelis
Jan 8, 2009, 3:10 AM
Post #11 of 35
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Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one.
so by this logic, if i am able to free it, i can go rap-bolt Wings o steel?
or any other hard run-out hook fest on the captain?
as long as i am able to free it then i don't need to do anything but go in and rap-bolt the shit out of it claiming a free ascent trumps an aid ascent?
really?
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Lazlo
Jan 8, 2009, 4:21 AM
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altelis wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one. so by this logic, if i am able to free it, i can go rap-bolt Wings o steel? or any other hard run-out hook fest on the captain? as long as i am able to free it then i don't need to do anything but go in and rap-bolt the shit out of it claiming a free ascent trumps an aid ascent? really?
This is going to turn out well. [/sarcasm]
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altelis
Jan 8, 2009, 4:29 AM
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to be fair, and cause i don't have the energy to get caught up in this, my opinion on the matter is NOT cut and dry like my post makes it seem
i am just trying to point out the other perspective-madhatter put out a pretty bold and unnuanced view that, to me, seems to ignore a LOT of history and a lot of current climbing
i think that a lot of climbers see things on a scale of worse-to-better. like grades, and many see styles that way, at least where aid is concerned. aid climbing is often seen as that cute little thing of our sports past with no current place at the table.
i fully understand the argument that, all things being equal, there are reasons to look forward to those that will come behind us and take that into consideration before altering the rock permanently (be that with a bolt, drilled bat-hole, or pitons).
but there is also something to be said about the person, in the moment, doing their own FA how they see fit.
its complicated. surprised? there's room for debate. scared? its just sad to see people look down at other endeavors within their sport. my comment was NOT about this climb in particular nor was it about free vs aid, etc. just about not shitting all over an entire aspect of the sport with a few quick clicks of the fingers on the keyboard....
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Lazlo
Jan 8, 2009, 4:43 AM
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altelis wrote: to be fair, and cause i don't have the energy to get caught up in this, my opinion on the matter is NOT cut and dry like my post makes it seem i am just trying to point out the other perspective-madhatter put out a pretty bold and unnuanced view that, to me, seems to ignore a LOT of history and a lot of current climbing i think that a lot of climbers see things on a scale of worse-to-better. like grades, and many see styles that way, at least where aid is concerned. aid climbing is often seen as that cute little thing of our sports past with no current place at the table. i fully understand the argument that, all things being equal, there are reasons to look forward to those that will come behind us and take that into consideration before altering the rock permanently (be that with a bolt, drilled bat-hole, or pitons). but there is also something to be said about the person, in the moment, doing their own FA how they see fit. its complicated. surprised? there's room for debate. scared? its just sad to see people look down at other endeavors within their sport. my comment was NOT about this climb in particular nor was it about free vs aid, etc. just about not shitting all over an entire aspect of the sport with a few quick clicks of the fingers on the keyboard....
Well said.
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tradrenn
Jan 8, 2009, 9:49 AM
Post #15 of 35
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altelis wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one. so by this logic, if i am able to free it, i can go rap-bolt Wings o steel? or any other hard run-out hook fest on the captain? as long as i am able to free it then i don't need to do anything but go in and rap-bolt the shit out of it claiming a free ascent trumps an aid ascent? really?
Dude, this sucks, it has to be ground up, preferably on gear since aid is gear or at least bolted on lead, JT style.
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rat-baby
Jan 8, 2009, 11:10 AM
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If your going to nail a hands to fingers crack because it's called A1 by some retard from the land of sport climbing who does not know the difference between an A and C, then your just as dumb. Clean aid is always the preferred method.
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altelis
Jan 8, 2009, 1:34 PM
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rat-baby wrote: If your going to nail a hands to fingers crack because it's called A1 by some retard from the land of sport climbing who does not know the difference between an A and C, then your just as dumb. Clean aid is always the preferred method.
really? always?
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Lazlo
Jan 8, 2009, 1:40 PM
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rat-baby wrote: If your going to nail a hands to fingers crack because it's called A1 by some retard from the land of sport climbing who does not know the difference between an A and C, then your just as dumb. Clean aid is always the preferred method.
Your post is very uninformed. I suggest you study some things.
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jaablink
Jan 8, 2009, 2:16 PM
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The highest form of climbing is Free. Sections or routs are aided because they have to be , due to the climbers lack of ability, conditions, or on account of a true blank section of wall.
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dingus
Jan 8, 2009, 2:35 PM
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Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended...
Nope. Esp. in sandstone, not acceptable AT ALL.
DMT
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dingus
Jan 8, 2009, 2:38 PM
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altelis wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one. so by this logic, if i am able to free it, i can go rap-bolt Wings o steel? or any other hard run-out hook fest on the captain?
Sure you can but rap bolting is aid, silly.
DMT
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altelis
Jan 8, 2009, 2:59 PM
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dingus wrote: altelis wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Lazlo wrote: This route (Welcome to 'ol Kentucky 5.13a) was originally an aid route called "Nazi Bitch Crack" (5.8 A1) by Cliff Hooper. The First Free Accent went to Steve Petro. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in the RC.com gears: Would it still be acceptable to nail this route? That's how it was originally intended... No. The free accent trumps the aid one. so by this logic, if i am able to free it, i can go rap-bolt Wings o steel? or any other hard run-out hook fest on the captain? Sure you can but rap bolting is aid, silly. DMT
my bizzle
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camhead
Jan 8, 2009, 3:55 PM
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Lazlo,
how do you know that the route was originally hammered for the FA. I do not recall seeing any sign of pinscars on it. If you wanted to aid it, it would certainly go completely clean on passive gear, let alone cams.
I could be wrong, though.
out of curiosity, why is a Californian picking on a Kentucky route?
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