Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Sport Climbing:
bolt spacing
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Sport Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


evanwish


Oct 18, 2008, 10:25 PM
Post #1 of 26 (11367 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

bolt spacing
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm wondering about how people choose how far they space bolts while drilling. Today I saw many routes where the first bolt was ~8 feet off the ground, while the second was ~25 feet off the ground with the 5.11+ crux between them.
meaning if you blow the crux you smash the ground with loads of slack to spare..

does this seem a little odd to you guys or should i just go back to plugging pro?


porkchop_express


Oct 18, 2008, 11:05 PM
Post #2 of 26 (11358 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 62

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I have seen a great deal of this too...unfortunately its not as uncommon as you would think .I have seen a few routes where the low first bolt was left in tact while the second, higher bolt was chopped...few things are as frustrating as that.

I think a shoddily bolted sport route is much scarier than trad; at least you have some say over where your protection goes.


full1346


Oct 19, 2008, 2:31 PM
Post #3 of 26 (11304 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 4, 2007
Posts: 61

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

yeah i have seen such things too, here in pa sometimes you have to get 15 feet of air beneath your heels before you can clip the first bolt


evanwish


Oct 19, 2008, 3:41 PM
Post #4 of 26 (11260 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [full1346] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

well the 15 feet to the first bolt makes sense because you can use a crashpad.. but if you take a groundfall from 30+ feet up with a bad landing the crashpad's worthless..


hafilax


Oct 19, 2008, 4:36 PM
Post #5 of 26 (11232 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 3025

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The first bolt should be at 3m and the following bolts spaced by exactly 2m. Non adherence will result in being summarily tarred and feathered after a severe tongue lashing. All bolts will be chopped and public access for the crag denied indefinitely.


jakedatc


Oct 19, 2008, 4:54 PM
Post #6 of 26 (11216 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054

Re: [hafilax] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Evan could there been some gear placements in between the bolts? Mixed routes are fairly popular in some areas.

Other than that the FA either bolts it on lead and the bolts go where they can get a stance or sufficient aid placement to drill or they rehearse the route multiple times and rap bolt it where the best clipping holds are and protect from a ground/ledge fall.

sounds like your route was either a mixed route and you needed some gear or it was a shitty bolt job


evanwish


Oct 19, 2008, 8:21 PM
Post #7 of 26 (11155 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [jakedatc] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jakedatc wrote:
Evan could there been some gear placements in between the bolts?

on one of the routes there is a great 1" crack from the second bolt to the anchor, but between the first and the second is nothing. Its easy after you climb above the first bolt, but the crux comes before you can reach the second bolt.

a few other routes in the area have the same problem where the first bolt becomes completely useless because its so close to the ground. getting to the second bolt is basically a freesolo.


jakedatc


Oct 19, 2008, 8:31 PM
Post #8 of 26 (11143 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Then someone made a shitty bolt job

is there a stance before the crux so there could be a place to clip a bolt?


MikeSaint


Oct 19, 2008, 8:43 PM
Post #9 of 26 (11131 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 426

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Interesting question. Last time someone asked it spawned bolting threads three more came out of it.

So a possible reason could be that the route was done ground up, the run out is the result of a poor stance to drill? Whats the history/ ethic of the area?


evanwish


Oct 19, 2008, 9:10 PM
Post #10 of 26 (11117 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [jakedatc] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

its really not a popular area (probably for a reason)
it's Indian Springs (NOT Indian Creek) its off Hw. 80 by northern Tahoe

this would be an acurate representation of the bolt spacing:


xx








x









x


ground


bender


Oct 19, 2008, 9:21 PM
Post #11 of 26 (11108 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 23, 2002
Posts: 188

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ya, seen lots of terribly bolted routes
dont forget reason includes hold breaking and new crux's developing after the fact of its bolting. the biggest reason sport climbers have terrain to develop is simply because traditional climbing on loose and chossy cliffs was just to dangerous

when you author a route today you create a need for maintance most of the time. chief being keeping the route safe

no reason to get hurt anymore, particularly out at the gravel piles we are climbing on these days

fix your routes


jeepnphreak


Nov 13, 2008, 10:07 AM
Post #12 of 26 (10782 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 1259

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

evanwish wrote:
I'm wondering about how people choose how far they space bolts while drilling. Today I saw many routes where the first bolt was ~8 feet off the ground, while the second was ~25 feet off the ground with the 5.11+ crux between them.
meaning if you blow the crux you smash the ground with loads of slack to spare..

does this seem a little odd to you guys or should i just go back to plugging pro?

there was a route like that just bolted in my home town not too long ago. Close to the gound 1st bolt and a hella high 2nd bolt. After a couple of week I came back to find some one bolted up about 6-7 feet above the 1st and placed a nice new bolt. Made me feel better about pullling the curx and NOT decking.


vegastradguy


Nov 13, 2008, 10:13 AM
Post #13 of 26 (10772 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

evanwish wrote:
its really not a popular area (probably for a reason)
it's Indian Springs (NOT Indian Creek) its off Hw. 80 by northern Tahoe

this would be an acurate representation of the bolt spacing:


xx








x









x


ground

if that's accurate, then you're not talking about a sport route.


Partner j_ung


Nov 13, 2008, 10:50 AM
Post #14 of 26 (10744 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690

Re: [vegastradguy] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

That's exactly what I was going to say. That doesn't look like any sport route I've ever seen.


evanwish


Nov 13, 2008, 12:05 PM
Post #15 of 26 (10690 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [j_ung] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ok so it's bolted, but it doesn't qualify as "sport" because of fact it's not as relatively safe as normaly bolted routes?

at the base i thoght i just wasn't seeing a bolt, but i led a route to the right, and rapped down and searched.. sure enough i didn't miss any bolts!
[the existing bolts were quite old too]

http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/North_America/United_States/California/Lake_Tahoe/Indian_Springs/Upper_Tier/White_Streak_96605.html


Partner j_ung


Nov 13, 2008, 12:37 PM
Post #16 of 26 (10663 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

evanwish wrote:
ok so it's bolted, but it doesn't qualify as "sport" because of fact it's not as relatively safe as normaly bolted routes?

at the base i thoght i just wasn't seeing a bolt, but i led a route to the right, and rapped down and searched.. sure enough i didn't miss any bolts!
[the existing bolts were quite old too]

http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/North_America/United_States/California/Lake_Tahoe/Indian_Springs/Upper_Tier/White_Streak_96605.html

My guess (and that's all it is) is that it's meant to be a mixed line. I'm not saying it's a good mixed line. Laugh


evanwish


Nov 13, 2008, 4:29 PM
Post #17 of 26 (10612 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [j_ung] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

the route to the right, "firestone" (http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ire_Stone_96607.html) has a very similar section to the one mentioned above but is is just 5.9
the .9 finishes up as a mixed route at the top with one or two .5" cams

but that doesn't explain the groundfall potential on first half of the .9
or the groundfall potential on the whole 5.11a route

i'm not complaining, just curious... (they made very fun top ropes)


itakealot


Dec 22, 2008, 3:27 PM
Post #18 of 26 (10139 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 8, 2003
Posts: 382

Re: [hafilax] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hafilax wrote:
The first bolt should be at 3m and the following bolts spaced by exactly 2m. Non adherence will result in being summarily tarred and feathered after a severe tongue lashing. All bolts will be chopped and public access for the crag denied indefinitely.
Is that how they do it in Canadia! I thought BC climbers were all hard dirtbag traddies!
Bolt spacing should follow the flow of the climb. If the first bolt is too high then stick clip it. Bolts should be at a good rest where a climber can get 3 points on. If the rock is solid and there is an easy section high enough off the ground, then run it out, like in Jtree. sometime the bolt spacing like no bolts anywhere near a crux is the challenge from the FA'er saying you got to be as hard as me to send this crux.
Setting uniform spacing is like they do it in the Rock Gym.
Don't slap the rude dude if you are shaky at the grade!


salamanizer


Dec 22, 2008, 5:58 PM
Post #19 of 26 (10069 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 879

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Those aren't sport routes, they were bolted on lead believe it or not.

The F.A. did the route without intent or care for making the route accessible to everyone. They just placed the bolts that are there to make the route "good enough" for them, at that particular time.

Whether it's a good route in your opinion, not safe or whatever is besides the point. Whether they tried to make the route a death route or not is besides the point as well.

Sometimes (more often than not) these routes develop because, "thats just how it went down".

Gives you something to aspire too in the future now doesn't it.


Factor2


Dec 22, 2008, 7:25 PM
Post #20 of 26 (10010 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 17, 2008
Posts: 188

Re: [salamanizer] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If the route was bolted ground up on lead, then the bolts are just perfectly fine where they are. There should be no complaints in that department.

However, if it was rap bolted, then it should have been done better. When you rap bolt, do it right.


zeke_sf


Dec 22, 2008, 8:15 PM
Post #21 of 26 (9980 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

evanwish wrote:
its really not a popular area (probably for a reason)
it's Indian Springs (NOT Indian Creek) its off Hw. 80 by northern Tahoe

this would be an acurate representation of the bolt spacing:


xx








x









x


ground

Could be crappy bolting. Ive climbed a few routes at Indian Springs as a n00bie bolt clipper and the spacing didn't seem life-endangering on the routes I got on. The highest rated route I got on was a 10D though (forget the name). Was the crux right by the 2nd bolt or was it closer to the first and then you climb up on easier ground? That's fairly common.


zeke_sf


Dec 22, 2008, 8:19 PM
Post #22 of 26 (9974 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730

Re: [salamanizer] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

salamanizer wrote:
Those aren't sport routes, they were bolted on lead believe it or not.

That makes sense. Yes, I would never term Indian Springs a sport crag.


salamanizer


Dec 22, 2008, 9:46 PM
Post #23 of 26 (9937 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 879

Re: [zeke_sf] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

zeke_sf wrote:
I would never term Indian Springs a sport crag.

No, but a lot of (well protected) sport routes have gone in there over the last couple years. So I could see why someone new to the area might question "who the fukk bolted this thing".

Something for everyone! Woohoo!!!


asellers98


Dec 22, 2008, 10:09 PM
Post #24 of 26 (9923 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 75

Re: [evanwish] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If the route was put up on lead, then there should be adequate placements for trad for the dangerous groundfall potentials unless the leader was a hardcore.

If there are not adequate trad placements, and this route was put up on lead, and not made safe, I would just leave it unclimbed unless you are a hardcore too. If there is enough call from your climbing community to make it safe by bolting it, then contact the FA, and or the bolting commitee.

There are so many routes to climb, why put your legs or more in danger climbing a dangerous route unless that is your thing.


jcrew


Dec 23, 2008, 9:31 AM
Post #25 of 26 (9845 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 11, 2006
Posts: 673

Re: [Factor2] bolt spacing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Factor2 wrote:
If the route was bolted ground up on lead, then the bolts are just perfectly fine where they are. There should be no complaints in that department.

However, if it was rap bolted, then it should have been done better. When you rap bolt, do it right.

completely agree! i've retro-bolted my own rap routes to make them better, can't be afraid to edit work.

but ground-up is climbing, taking what you get. it's almost a different sport these days, not fully understood by a lot of "urban-climber" types

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Sport Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook