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angry
Dec 27, 2008, 5:08 AM
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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So I'm a bit frustrated right now.
As many of you know, i'm climbing on a pair of handmade "Stanley Alpine" titanium tools. For ice, not mixed, you will be hard pressed to find a better tool. Especially so with the leashless mod I've done to them.
The biggest problem with homegrown anything is the lack of a shop in China churning out a million replacement parts.
I'm careful but there are still rocks in the winter. I thought they'd hibernate. I smack one here or there, nothing terrible and when the nicks start affecting my sticks, I go ahead and sharpen them. This of course makes the picks shorter each time.
In the mass production world it's easy enough to go drop $45 and have a new pick. Voila, problem solved. I however am not a member of this club. The guy who made my tools ran out of picks and between a job change and a move, he hasn't gotten a new batch yet. The order is in for new ones but that could be May before I see anything.
In my shopping, I've seen the old style petzl/charlet tools. They are damn similar in the attachment. Look. I don't even think it'd change my geometry.
 and 
The two holes are the exact same spacing. I could get the replacement pick
and mount it up with just a little extra filing.
Nice, with this option I've got access to a B and T rated Charlet pick. It's not as nice as the picks he makes but it will get me climbing.
So the question then is, how would you feel about it? My concern is that the original pick fits into the head perfectly with no play. I wonder how much weaker/how much extra stress on the bolts the setup would be. Trustworthy? I will be using it on vertical WI, not low angle so a pick failure could suck.
And here's a picture of the pick laying on an early prototype (that I unfortunately can't use) just to give you an idea of just how much I've already filed off my pick. What you can't see is that it's a little bent too. So yeah, I'm not going to just keep climbing on the old ones, they are already long past retirement. They'll have a beautiful afterlife as bottle openers.
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salamanizer
Dec 27, 2008, 5:53 AM
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Registered: Jul 3, 2004
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Welp... no one's gonna be able to tell ya how it's going to work out without seeing the situation for themselves, not even yourself.
Anyone who tells you your nuts for trusting it, is simply giving there opinion which bares no weight what-so-ever.
Now, you might not want to hear it, but I think you only have two choices.
1) Try it out, test em', tweak em' put them through the ringer and decide then if you trust them or not.
-or-
2) Get a new set of tools until you can get your replacement picks.
If the Petzl picks don't work, you'll have to decide whats worse, blowing 200+ bucks on some shitty tools you don't like, or sitting this season out cuz you failed to plan ahead.
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southforkclimber
Dec 27, 2008, 6:25 AM
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I'll agree. I won't say it simply won't work, because I can't look at them head to head. It might very well work. I think the difference in bolts will be marginal, if you look at it. I climb on Cobras and only have one bolt holding my pick onto my axe. Granted, I have that groove, but it is worth a shot. If you love your tools, I'm sure that something can be made to figure it out. Do you have any friends that work in a machine shop? Maybe they can start to make some new picks for you.
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sungam
Dec 27, 2008, 2:47 PM
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
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Hey John, one thing to looks out for there.
Even if the pick fits perfectly, make sure it slot it can go into can handle it - if it's also titanium, and you old pick isn't as hard a metal as the moser ones, expect the moser ones to slowly shear into the titanium. Harder metals, when in contact with soft metals, will always slowly wear them away.
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dingus
Dec 27, 2008, 3:03 PM
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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Tell your friend he should match some mfg's hole config exactly, so as to share parts more easily.
You bought the Bentley dude. Now you gotta pay the Bentley mechanic....
DMT
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angry
Dec 27, 2008, 3:17 PM
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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sungam wrote: Hey John, one thing to looks out for there. Even if the pick fits perfectly, make sure it slot it can go into can handle it - if it's also titanium, and you old pick isn't as hard a metal as the moser ones, expect the moser ones to slowly shear into the titanium. Harder metals, when in contact with soft metals, will always slowly wear them away.
This isn't an issue.
First off, the shaft of the tool is ti, the head is aluminum, and the pick is steel. A new pick would be the same.
None of the local shops carry those Axar picks, I guess I could go to :gasp: boulder and someone would probably have something. But fuck that place, I'd rather mail order.
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sungam
Dec 27, 2008, 3:31 PM
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
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angry wrote: sungam wrote: Hey John, one thing to looks out for there. Even if the pick fits perfectly, make sure it slot it can go into can handle it - if it's also titanium, and you old pick isn't as hard a metal as the moser ones, expect the moser ones to slowly shear into the titanium. Harder metals, when in contact with soft metals, will always slowly wear them away. This isn't an issue. First off, the shaft of the tool is ti, the head is aluminum, and the pick is steel. A new pick would be the same. None of the local shops carry those Axar picks, I guess I could go to :gasp: boulder and someone would probably have something. But fuck that place, I'd rather mail order.
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angry
Dec 27, 2008, 4:57 PM
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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sungam wrote: angry wrote: sungam wrote: Hey John, one thing to looks out for there. Even if the pick fits perfectly, make sure it slot it can go into can handle it - if it's also titanium, and you old pick isn't as hard a metal as the moser ones, expect the moser ones to slowly shear into the titanium. Harder metals, when in contact with soft metals, will always slowly wear them away. This isn't an issue. First off, the shaft of the tool is ti, the head is aluminum, and the pick is steel. A new pick would be the same. None of the local shops carry those Axar picks, I guess I could go to :gasp: boulder and someone would probably have something. But fuck that place, I'd rather mail order. heh. I thought you lived there? Whats rong with boulder?
Hells no.
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sungam
Dec 27, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
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angry wrote: sungam wrote: angry wrote: sungam wrote: Hey John, one thing to looks out for there. Even if the pick fits perfectly, make sure it slot it can go into can handle it - if it's also titanium, and you old pick isn't as hard a metal as the moser ones, expect the moser ones to slowly shear into the titanium. Harder metals, when in contact with soft metals, will always slowly wear them away. This isn't an issue. First off, the shaft of the tool is ti, the head is aluminum, and the pick is steel. A new pick would be the same. None of the local shops carry those Axar picks, I guess I could go to :gasp: boulder and someone would probably have something. But fuck that place, I'd rather mail order. heh. I thought you lived there? Whats rong with boulder? Hells no.
"I live in sheffield so I'm a fucking awesome climber" ?
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angry
Dec 27, 2008, 5:52 PM
Post #10 of 13
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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sungam wrote: angry wrote: sungam wrote: angry wrote: sungam wrote: Hey John, one thing to looks out for there. Even if the pick fits perfectly, make sure it slot it can go into can handle it - if it's also titanium, and you old pick isn't as hard a metal as the moser ones, expect the moser ones to slowly shear into the titanium. Harder metals, when in contact with soft metals, will always slowly wear them away. This isn't an issue. First off, the shaft of the tool is ti, the head is aluminum, and the pick is steel. A new pick would be the same. None of the local shops carry those Axar picks, I guess I could go to :gasp: boulder and someone would probably have something. But fuck that place, I'd rather mail order. heh. I thought you lived there? Whats rong with boulder? Hells no. CO's version of sheffield? "I live in sheffield so I'm a fucking awesome climber" ?
Did I hijack my thread or did you?
Yep, it's like that but I'd wager that it's far far worse.
It'll be 50 and sunny the next couple days, I'm climbing rock. The picks can wait.
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basilisk
Dec 31, 2008, 12:15 AM
Post #11 of 13
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Registered: Oct 1, 2005
Posts: 636
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Give it a try. Can't hurt.
Failing that you could just buy something large (Like a BD Laser), get a metal drill bit an go to town. Any extra metal that prevents it from fitting can be hacked with a cutting wheel on a grinder. Just keep pouring oil/water on it so the pick doesn't overheat.
And I wanna hear more about these tools!
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angry
Dec 31, 2008, 12:25 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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Turns out he's almost done.
He did a little redesign so the laser cutter wasn't as fast as normal. He ground the bevel into them earlier this week and they went to get hardened today. I'll have them by friday or monday and I'm borrowing his picks until they're ready.
Yay for not having to go ghetto fabulous.
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the_climber
Jan 5, 2009, 5:41 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
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Hey angry could you post up some more pics of those tools?
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