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acadiaclmber
Dec 27, 2008, 1:55 AM
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I am building up a trad rack, and was wondering what the specific reason is that sport quick draws aren't supposed to be used for trad climbing. Is it only because they don't extend like draws made with tripled runners?
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pendereki
Dec 27, 2008, 2:11 AM
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Sport draws, commonly known as quickdraws, are too short and too stiff. This often does not allow the rope to run in a straight enough line and makes it more likely for wiggle in the rope to translate into wiggle in the piece of protection. Both of these scenerios lead to a greater possibility of the protection moving or being removed from the rock by the rope as the leader progresses (or falls). A shoulder length runner and two carabiners isolate rope movement from the protection better than a quickdraw.
CM
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suilenroc
Dec 27, 2008, 2:14 AM
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acadiaclmber wrote: I am building up a trad rack, and was wondering what the specific reason is that sport quick draws aren't supposed to be used for trad climbing. Is it only because they don't extend like draws made with tripled runners?
Not sure where this information came from but they are useful. I usually carry a few for stoppers and chains...
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acadiaclmber
Dec 27, 2008, 2:22 AM
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll be swapping out the dogbones for runners shortly!
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caughtinside
Dec 27, 2008, 3:11 AM
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While you do need 2' runners, the notion that sport style quicks are no good for trad is simply incorrect. I use several, and so do many trad climbers I know.
Using only extendable runners and no sport style draws isn't wrong, but it certainly isn't mandatory. You don't have to extend every runner and sometimes it's nice to have a quick clip and go draw, rather than have to deal with an upside down biner. Plus, if you already have sport draws, it saves you having to buy a bunch of runners.
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MikeSaint
Dec 27, 2008, 4:55 AM
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Have a mix both. The advantage to the 'trad draw' is that you can always extend if needed. You never know when you find yourself stepping around an arete only to experience terrible rope drag. You'll curse the wallet then and there for it. 
Eye the line of climbing appropriately.
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ServiceAceStud
Dec 27, 2008, 5:05 AM
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Once you've seen a quickdraw pull a nut or help a cam walk you'll see that having runners to extend is necessary for trad climbers, but it can be a pain sometimes when you just want to clip in. Runners can be harder to clip into, especially on overhanging routes. I generally carry half and half QD to runner ratio and of th QD's I got half 5' and half 7". I've done routes with no runners, but I've done them with like 9 extended pieces. Having runners is necessary, but once you understand when you can get away with not using them and when you do need them your much better off. Plus you'll need them for sport too.
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angry
Dec 27, 2008, 5:17 AM
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A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.
A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.
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macblaze
Dec 27, 2008, 6:33 AM
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angry wrote: A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating. A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.
That coating's mildly hallucinogenic too right? I've often noticed I am much crazier when sport climbing than when trad climbing...
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Maddhatter
Dec 27, 2008, 9:49 AM
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Guess this 2 min in my life are gone forever.
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rjtrials
Dec 27, 2008, 3:12 PM
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caughtinside wrote: While you do need 2' runners, the notion that sport style quicks are no good for trad is simply incorrect. I use several, and so do many trad climbers I know. Using only extendable runners and no sport style draws isn't wrong, but it certainly isn't mandatory. You don't have to extend every runner and sometimes it's nice to have a quick clip and go draw, rather than have to deal with an upside down biner. Plus, if you already have sport draws, it saves you having to buy a bunch of runners.
I always carry two 2' runners on my sporty rack. I HATE having to fiddle with the biner so i put the little rubber diapers on the rope side biner to hold it to the webbing and prevent the flippage. A couple wraps of tape work just as well. As an added bonus, it is much easier to extend as well.
RJ
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currupt4130
Dec 28, 2008, 11:22 PM
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angry wrote: A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating. A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.
So is that why the biners I scavenged from some quick draws are eating through my slings? I've already had two slings melt through, and they both had biners from a quickdraw on them.
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USnavy
Dec 30, 2008, 3:55 AM
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angry wrote: A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating. A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.
I hope your kidding. 
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suilenroc
Dec 30, 2008, 4:00 AM
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USnavy wrote: angry wrote: A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating. A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason. I hope your kidding.
Why would he be kidding... galvanic corrosion is a pretty serious matter, if you don't know about it yet you should check this out...
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Dec 30, 2008, 4:00 AM)
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coolcat83
Dec 30, 2008, 4:07 AM
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angry wrote: A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating. A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.
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jt512
Dec 30, 2008, 5:17 AM
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USnavy wrote: angry wrote: A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating. A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason. I hope your kidding.
He's dead serious.
Jay
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grampacharlie
Jan 2, 2009, 10:23 PM
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If I'm on a trad climb that is pushing my limits, I will always reach for a sport draw on a tricky stance rather than a runner. Sport draws are designed for ease of clipping when it really matters. If I grab a runner and then have to spend a few seconds fumbling around with biners that have rotated, or twisted nylon, i might not get that crucial clip.
On long routes, or just cragging I carry half sport draws, half extendables.
My $.02
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lagwagonpcp
Jan 3, 2009, 12:13 AM
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galvanic corrosion?! just when i thought it was safe to go to the crag, this galvanic corrosion shit stresses me out
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tradrenn
Jan 5, 2009, 5:15 AM
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Instead of dogbones try using 1 foot slings and still use the rubber thingy on rope end of your draw.
I find it to be working quite well on gear and bolts.
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granite_grrl
Jan 5, 2009, 2:08 PM
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tradrenn wrote: Instead of dogbones try using 1 foot slings and still use the rubber thingy on rope end of your draw. I find it to be working quite well on gear and bolts.
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charley
Jan 5, 2009, 2:40 PM
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My draws must be as old as I am. I don't think I have rubber thingys on mine. Is it still safe protection?
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dingus
Jan 5, 2009, 3:08 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: Guess this 2 min in my life are gone forever.
Now you know how we feel.
All of us.
DMT
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dingus
Jan 5, 2009, 3:08 PM
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charley wrote: My draws must be as old as I am. I don't think I have rubber thingys on mine. Is it still safe protection?
Yes but you can't get as high using them.
DMT
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keep_it_real
Jan 5, 2009, 11:50 PM
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I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:
Where did you read such a thing? BD does not use any such 'coating' on
any of its quickdraws so it's a little difficult to comment. I've
actually never heard of this. Make sure you're getting good info.
This rubber 'ring' actually has to do with holding the rope-end biner
firmly in place so it doesn't flip around when you're trying to clip it
from a tough stance (it's quicker, easier to do, etc).
It's perfectly fine to use Quicksilver or Oz Draws and/or Carabiners for
any style of climbing/mountaineering use.
(This post was edited by keep_it_real on Jan 5, 2009, 11:52 PM)
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kriso9tails
Jan 5, 2009, 11:54 PM
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keep_it_real wrote: I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:
I hope that you aren't being sarcastic/ kidding, 'cause that's f'n awesome.
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