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Pushing it for Trad...dangerous?
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vegastradguy


Jan 6, 2009, 9:27 AM
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Re: [suilenroc] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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suilenroc wrote:
5.10 trad tend to be... not that dangerous. WTF are you talking about? More importantly which route? I figure most of the time if a route is 5.10 you are looking a solid jams between sweet moves. Maybe its just me but this topic is kind of strange...

ps i only read the op

you havent climbed that much .10 trad, then. i've been on plenty of 10s that have had fairly high consequences if you blew it.

that said....10 is generally safer than lower grades because the climbing is usually steeper and cleaner, but not always.


Partner rgold


Jan 6, 2009, 10:33 AM
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Re: [iamthewallress] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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iamthewallress wrote:
If it was standard for fine looking placements to fail, then most/many people would fall roughly twice per C1 pitch of aid climbing where looking good is tends to be the preferred testing method before forging ahead. This simply doesn't happen with experienced climbers.


The 1 in 20 number refers to placements made in a wide range of different rock types and conditions, and then subjected to much higher than bodyweight loads. For this reason, the C1 observation is not relevant; in that case all the placements are going into essentially the same piece of rock and none are being whipped on or even bounce tested.

The bottom line is that trad gear can fail unexpectedly. You can argue all day about how likely it is that this or that type of piece or placement will fail, but I doubt there's an experienced climber out there who can't tell you stories about "good" pieces turning out not to be. Part of trad climbing is understanding this and dealing with it.

P.S. When it comes to "good-looking" small cams not being good, I suspect 1 in 20 is optimistic.


onceahardman


Jan 6, 2009, 11:21 AM
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Re: [rgold] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I doubt there's an experienced climber out there who can't tell you stories about "good" pieces turning out not to be.

The converse can also be true. I've been surprised several times when junky pieces held.

That's why you back things up where you can, especially when you have a good stance.


onceahardman


Jan 6, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Re: [dingus] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
It is the mother well, the fountainhead, from which all climbing stems. You start at the bottom and you climb to the top.

Nicely put, dingus.

It just seems like "natural law", to me. I don't get why others don't get it.


brownie710


Jan 6, 2009, 12:07 PM
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Re: [8flood8] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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8flood8 wrote:
the cool thing about hard trad is you can always aid it!

??????
How are you gonna aid a runout route?


ClimbitToday


Jan 6, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Re: [onceahardman] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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Hmmmm,

Interesting thread. Here's my 2 cents. Climbing is dangerous! Sport, Trad, Soloing, and Bouldering...it's all dangerous. So is life!

If you go climbing you got to pay attention and know your ability. Our job as climbers is to be able to mitigate the risk through preparation. It's important to gather information about the route; (how far b/t protection points, obsticales, face or crack, etc) and access these risk/factors before leaving the ground. If you can't accept the fall consequence or any of the factors then the route is probably not appropriate for you. My rule for scetchy run-out routes is gaining familarity with similar well protected lines first.

Climbers that refuse to fall are missing out and limiting themselves. Some falls are appropriate. Therefor I feel we should push ourselves - even on trad lines.

"Mountains are not fair or unfair - they are just dangerous." Reinhold Messner


AlexCV


Jan 6, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Re: [brownie710] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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brownie710 wrote:
8flood8 wrote:
the cool thing about hard trad is you can always aid it!

??????
How are you gonna aid a runout route?

There's a reason they still make hooks and #1 micro nuts.


goodman


Jan 6, 2009, 1:36 PM
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Re: [dbrayack] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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1st off - Dan this is a stupid thread..you can't be serious.?
2nd off - Bachar/Yerian is the epitome of trad climbing - why can't climbers get it right.....
3rd off - Just cause you went to Indian Creek last weekend don't make you a trad climber!
4th off - Bolt or no bolt any fall a climber takes could result in death.


dbrayack


Jan 6, 2009, 1:37 PM
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Re: [goodman] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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check out the date of the original post Pat =)


andygravity


Jan 6, 2009, 2:01 PM
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Re: [AlexCV] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
There's a reason they still make hooks and #1 micro nuts.

How often do you have these while free climbing?


suilenroc


Jan 6, 2009, 3:17 PM
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Re: [andygravity] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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Trad Climbing isn't Dangerous... This is...
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/...09/0106091vail4.html


andygravity


Jan 6, 2009, 3:35 PM
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Re: [suilenroc] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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Especially dangerous for the guy in the yellow helmet (pic #3).


suilenroc


Jan 6, 2009, 3:37 PM
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Re: [andygravity] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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andygravity wrote:
Especially dangerous for the guy in the yellow helmet (pic #3).[/quote
LaughLaughLaughexcellent pointLaughLaughLaugh


brownie710


Jan 6, 2009, 5:29 PM
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Re: [AlexCV] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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holy fuckstick!


spikeddem


Jan 7, 2009, 12:33 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Almost every time I climb, I take a lead fall because I try to lead at or above my limit so I can get better.

Why? What's the goal in getting better?

Consider a marathoner - does she have to run 26 miles every time out?

Does she afford herself a pleasant Sunday morning jog? A hike with the kids?

I'm still fascinated by the 'must get better' performance focus of a lot of climbers (most?).

Do you ever climb that 5.8 you're lecturing about? Not just to string a top rope for some friends - I mean do you slow down enough from your relentless improvement schedule to actually ENJOY the skills you have on a route that is perhaps easy for you... just for fun?

Or is your improvement the sort that requires dogged determination, few smiles and lots of suffering?

Cause it takes ALL KINDS, I've larnt.

DMT

Ok let me rephrase, every time I lead a route that is at or above my limit, I fall.

<keanu> Woah. Like, yeah . . . woah.</keanu>


(This post was edited by spikeddem on Jan 7, 2009, 6:08 AM)


Sin


Jan 7, 2009, 12:59 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Almost every time I climb, I take a lead fall because I try to lead at or above my limit so I can get better.

Why? What's the goal in getting better?

Consider a marathoner - does she have to run 26 miles every time out?

Does she afford herself a pleasant Sunday morning jog? A hike with the kids?

I'm still fascinated by the 'must get better' performance focus of a lot of climbers (most?).

Do you ever climb that 5.8 you're lecturing about? Not just to string a top rope for some friends - I mean do you slow down enough from your relentless improvement schedule to actually ENJOY the skills you have on a route that is perhaps easy for you... just for fun?

Or is your improvement the sort that requires dogged determination, few smiles and lots of suffering?

Cause it takes ALL KINDS, I've larnt.

DMT

Ok let me rephrase, every time I lead a route that is at or above my limit, I fall. I donít fall on 5.10's much anymore and most of the 11's I got down.

If I am not falling it means the climb is below my limit. If I never raise the bar I will never climb harder. Yes I could become stronger by climbing 5.10 but I could never become better. Every grade has a new set of techniques the climber needs to master. If I rarely climb above 5.11 I will never climb 5.12 for I will never learn the technique needed to climb 12ís.

When I start out climbing in the morning I jump right on my 5.12 project on lead. No warm up, no wasting time. Then as long as I have a partner that also enjoys the same grade, I climb at or above my limit for the rest of the day. I find this approach gets me through the grades and a good lead head faster than anything else.

Yes I have climbed that 5.8. I have redpointed it 50 times and soloed it once.

Dude, everyone has their reasons for climbing, but your reason seems to be based on pride and ego. Not only that, dingus nailed it, you make climbing too strenuous to want to do.
I was taught to build a solid base of moderate climbs before ever moving up the grade. Every 3-4weeks I try something at or above my limit. I'd say it's more about mileage rather than dogging most of the time. Stop and smell the flowers.
Hehe no warm-up? I think that's bs. Do I hear flash pump?
-sin


suilenroc


Jan 7, 2009, 1:37 AM
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Re: [Sin] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Not only that, dingus nailed it, you make climbing too strenuous to want to do.

Why does everyone on this website kiss your ass? Seriously, WTF? There is a trend that i see without justification... Are you like the ultimate Rc.com ass to sniff or what?


dingus


Jan 7, 2009, 7:01 AM
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Re: [suilenroc] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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But I didn't nail it.

USNavy seems like a good bloke to me. But he sometimes says things in a sledge hammer way. I was just prodding him a bit.

DMT


dingus


Jan 7, 2009, 7:02 AM
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Re: [suilenroc] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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suilenroc wrote:
In reply to:
Not only that, dingus nailed it, you make climbing too strenuous to want to do.

Why does everyone on this website kiss your ass? Seriously, WTF? There is a trend that i see without justification... Are you like the ultimate Rc.com ass to sniff or what?

No I'm just Assman.

Know how I know?

All my friends, they tell me - "Dingus, you're an ass, man."

See?

The reason folks identify with what I write is BECAUSE I CAN WRITE.

Its that simple Sullen,

DMT


the_leech


Jan 7, 2009, 7:12 AM
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Re: [dingus] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
suilenroc wrote:
In reply to:
Not only that, dingus nailed it, you make climbing too strenuous to want to do.

Why does everyone on this website kiss your ass? Seriously, WTF? There is a trend that i see without justification... Are you like the ultimate Rc.com ass to sniff or what?

No I'm just Assman.

Know how I know?

All my friends, they tell me - "Dingus, you're an ass, man."

See?

The reason folks identify with what I write is BECAUSE I CAN WRITE.

Its that simple Sullen,

DMT

yOu iz a gud righter!!!11!!

I luvs you -- u gud riter you!@!!!!

rite sum mor fer uss pleez!!!!11


dingus


Jan 7, 2009, 7:14 AM
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Re: [the_leech] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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LEEEEEEEEECH!

Howzit?

DMT


the_leech


Jan 7, 2009, 7:17 AM
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Re: [dingus] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
LEEEEEEEEECH!

Howzit?

DMT

Mor mor mor!!!!

Rite fer us mor!!!!

i liKez u

even if u iz dope smokign hippyy.!!11!1


dingus


Jan 7, 2009, 7:22 AM
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What do you mean 'even?'

I don't get that????

DMT


the_leech


Jan 7, 2009, 7:32 AM
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Re: [dingus] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
What do you mean 'even?'

I don't get that????

DMT

u Iz dope smokign hipppy!!!!11

Yess u iz!!!!

But u stil rite guud..!

Nise one sentance/one pawragraf shtructerr like print meedia jernalists doo!!!!111

Rite mor rite mor!!!111!!


onceahardman


Jan 7, 2009, 7:39 AM
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Re: [suilenroc] Pushing it for Trad...dangerous? [In reply to]
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suilenroc wrote:
In reply to:
Not only that, dingus nailed it, you make climbing too strenuous to want to do.

Why does everyone on this website kiss your ass? Seriously, WTF? There is a trend that i see without justification... Are you like the ultimate Rc.com ass to sniff or what?

Actually, I dislike dingus, and usually we disagree. Even a blind squirrel finds a NUT once in a while.


Edited, because the spell check on my iphone substituted "buy" for "nut".Mad

(It also tried to substitute "fungus" for "dingus", but I caught that one.)


(This post was edited by onceahardman on Jan 7, 2009, 9:34 AM)

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