Jan 12, 2009, 5:27 PM
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WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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Heading to NH in a week to do the Mt. Washington Winter Day Hike on the tuckermans to lions head trail to summit trail. I am debating on the need for a sleeping bag (for an emergency bivy or if someone gets hurt). I am hiking with a group of 3 and we have a pretty good idea of the trail from maps and GPS. Also I don't plan on putting myself in a high risk situation (basically if the weather is pounding us we will head back down before we get in over our heads)
Current Gear List is: Gortex Hardshell Top and Bottom Fleece Mid Layer Top and Bottom Polypro Base top and bottom Gloves and Liner gloves Balaclava Goggles Crampons Headlamp Ice Axe Trekking Poles Mountaineering boots Space blanket type emergency bivy Down Jacket Map of area and Compass Two 32oz water bottles with jackets A couple of cliff bars Ace Bandage Day Pack
Jan 12, 2009, 5:36 PM
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Re: [angry] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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Yeah but since the weather gets pretty nasty up there I like to be prepared. Next week is showing -30f temps and high winds early then 20 above later in the week.
Jan 12, 2009, 5:43 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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Don't take my word for it, I'm just saying that I wouldn't bring one.
With what you'll be wearing you'll be warm enough to stay alive in a forced bivy. Add the space blanket and you might be comfortable even. All you really need to do is find somewhere out of the wind to hunker down out of the wind.
Here's the thing with preparedness, either on a wall or a mountain. If you plan to stay overnight, you will. Meaning that if you bring all the stuff needed to spend the night you'll be so slowed by it that you'll definitely spend the night.
We even used to say that you can do it in a day or do it in three. That holds true often times still.
I've done light and fast pushes past multiple basecamps up to 22,000 and never even considered bringing a sleeping bag. One time I didn't even bring the down jacket.
Jan 12, 2009, 5:56 PM
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Re: [angry] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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Don't take my last post the wrong way. I totally agree with you I'm just looking for some reassurance. I made an attempt at this hike last year and had WAAAY too much stuff as did everyone in our group. We were slow and missed the weather window by about an hour. The storm blew in and we had to turn around. I don't mind taking the down jacket or the emergency bivy because they are both so light. I could probably even do without the bottle jackets (unless its really freakin cold) and just wrap my down coat around the bottles. I plan on drinking one on the way up anyway.....so wait maybe i should nix the second bottle as well! This is why I do this little exercise now. I typically have to pack and unpack my pack about four times, until I can finally weed out the stuff thats not necessary.
Jan 12, 2009, 6:05 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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BRING A SLEEPING BAG!!! Better to have one than to freeze to death on an emergency bivy. At the very least you need to bring a good bivy sack. Have you everbeen to Mt. Washington? Home of the worlds worst weather. Attempted summit last week. 100 mph winds blew us off the attempt. Last year another pair of West Virginia hikers had to be rescued from there. The weather there changes in an instant!! no B.S. I have been on Mt Washington at least 100 times if not more at least 25% of the time weather has prevented standing on the summit. That includes July summit bids. Better safe than sorry. check out http://www.Mountwashington.org/weather/ for the latest conditions there are links for trail conditions and avalanche forcast too. Weather is predicted to be brutally cold this weekend (arctic blast coming in)
P.M. for latest beta, will be heading back sometime this week
Jan 12, 2009, 7:28 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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light and fast does equate to saftey UNLESS you get stuck for some reason. i'd rather have ah bit extra, esp on washington during an extreme weekend. it's amazing what a fresh pair of socks can do for a forced bivy (or any camp). also you could hide some gear on the way up and have it in case. maybe a small stove, extra food, bag, pint of something! i don't see a hat on your list nor first aid. how about signal device. just sayin - R
edit - i'd even take some line - 30' of 5 - 7mm couldn't hurt either
(This post was edited by reg on Jan 12, 2009, 7:31 PM)
Jan 12, 2009, 7:39 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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Never been at Mt Washington, but... don't you need avalanche gear?
I'd add more decent food for sure: "A couple of cliff bars " = asking for trouble 1L of hot tea (wrap the bottle in your down parka or bring thermos) should be ok for 12-20 hours
Jan 12, 2009, 7:49 PM
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Re: [tb69hikeclimb] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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Have you everbeen to Mt. Washington? Home of the worlds worst weather.
Yeah i was there last year in February and we had to turn around due to bad weather. We made it to the other side of the alpine gardens before the fog and snow was so bad that you couldn't see more then a few feet in front of you. I really don't plan on even making an attempt if the winds are supposed to be above 60. I experienced 40 sustained and 70mph gusts last year and you could barely walk.
Jan 12, 2009, 7:58 PM
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Re: [reg] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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reg wrote:
light and fast does equate to saftey UNLESS you get stuck for some reason. i'd rather have ah bit extra, esp on washington during an extreme weekend. it's amazing what a fresh pair of socks can do for a forced bivy (or any camp). also you could hide some gear on the way up and have it in case. maybe a small stove, extra food, bag, pint of something! i don't see a hat on your list nor first aid. how about signal device. just sayin - R
edit - i'd even take some line - 30' of 5 - 7mm couldn't hurt either
yeah...have the hat and actually have the cord as well just forgot too put it on the list. My balaclava is the OR windstopper kind so it is a full head covering.
Jan 12, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Re: [angry] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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I think safety consists of having a reliable way of figuring out where the cairns are, not in planning for a bivy. you don't get stuck on washington because the extra 5 pounds in gear is slowing you down, you get stuck because a whiteout blows up and you can't see farther than 20 feet in front of you. bring a compass and a short rope with you, so that one person can be at one cairn, and the next can go stumbling around (more or less blindly) to find the next cairn.
I never take a sleeping pack on daytrips to washington, because I like to get on trail before sunrise and back to the car way before sunset. if conditions are looking bad I stay home.
again, it is not worth planning to survive a bivy on washington. it is worth planning to have a reliable and fast way to get down if you need to.
Jan 12, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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i think you have pretty much exactly what you need. DON"T bring the sleeping bag, DON"T bring a tent, DON"T bring a stove, etc.!!!!!
i might add: more high FAT food (like cheese and sausages and chocolate- take a hint from the swiss!) instead of cliff bars, which get hard and unappetizing when its that cold, add a LITTLE flavored vodka to the water (helps prevent freezing and adds a little taste), add a thermos of HOT tea with LOTS of milk and sugar
forget the sleeping bag, MAYBE bring the space blanket. honestly, on mt washington the wind is some of the worst part of an unplanned bivy, and the summit snowfield is long and barren. NOTHING to hide from the wind in. you might be better off with a shovel to at least build a trough with rather than a space blanket. just my 2 cents.
i've spent a LOT of time on washington in the winter and i think people WAY over pack for it. if you keep your head up, keep thinking, and don't commit into stupid conditions you'll be fine.
just remember the ravines are VERY protected by the wind (depending on the direction), so don't feel like you're committed to climbing to the top at any point, especially before the alpine garden.
Jan 12, 2009, 8:33 PM
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Re: [altelis] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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altelis wrote:
i think you have pretty much exactly what you need. DON"T bring the sleeping bag, DON"T bring a tent, DON"T bring a stove, etc.!!!!!
i might add: more high FAT food (like cheese and sausages and chocolate- take a hint from the swiss!) instead of cliff bars, which get hard and unappetizing when its that cold, add a LITTLE flavored vodka to the water (helps prevent freezing and adds a little taste), add a thermos of HOT tea with LOTS of milk and sugar
forget the sleeping bag, MAYBE bring the space blanket. honestly, on mt washington the wind is some of the worst part of an unplanned bivy, and the summit snowfield is long and barren. NOTHING to hide from the wind in. you might be better off with a shovel to at least build a trough with rather than a space blanket. just my 2 cents.
i've spent a LOT of time on washington in the winter and i think people WAY over pack for it. if you keep your head up, keep thinking, and don't commit into stupid conditions you'll be fine.
just remember the ravines are VERY protected by the wind (depending on the direction), so don't feel like you're committed to climbing to the top at any point, especially before the alpine garden.
You know i was actually thinking about a shovel as well. I keep the cliff bars in my inner jacket pockets to keep them from freezing. I do like the idea soft high energy stuff like cheese.
The space blanket is weather dependent actually. I was up there last year and it was calling for temps 0f in the morning then above freezing with freezing rain that night. So in that case the space blanket could save your ass by keeping you dry'er.... but honestly i'm going to play it smart and not take the risk of getting stuck on bad weather if at all possible.
Jan 12, 2009, 8:50 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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andrewd wrote:
Ice Axe Trekking Poles
I'm not sure about other people, but I probably wouldn't bring both of these. Unless you have some knee problems or something, I've always found trekking poles to be more of a hindrance. I usually just bring a mountaineering axe with me. Its personal preferance really, I know some people can't walk without the trekking poles.
Also, I don't think avalanches are a big problem on the lions head trail, very low possibility for one there
Jan 12, 2009, 10:07 PM
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Re: [Factor2] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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if you are semi-fit, is the weight of a sleeping bag really going to make any difference? if it is going to make a difference you should really gut check and see if you are up for it. on the flip side, if there are chicks involved and weather rolls in, you could find yourself pretty popular pretty quick.
Jan 12, 2009, 11:42 PM
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Re: [lemon_boy] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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lemon_boy wrote:
if you are semi-fit, is the weight of a sleeping bag really going to make any difference? if it is going to make a difference you should really gut check and see if you are up for it. on the flip side, if there are chicks involved and weather rolls in, you could find yourself pretty popular pretty quick.
on the other hand, in any mountain situation, anything extra is going to end up being a hindrance
Jan 13, 2009, 12:13 AM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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I think your packing list looks about right. On the other hand, the first time I climbed it in winter, I brought exactly what you have listed and was wearing every ounce of it WHILE CLIMBING. Temps were about 0 degrees with 70 mph winds.
Make sure you can wrap up so absolutely no skin is exposed--balaclava (I wore two) and goggles. You can get frostbite in under a minute up there.
Winter is the best time of year to be up there--it's absolutely gorgeous.
Jan 13, 2009, 12:27 AM
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Re: [theswissfactor] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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honestly, i find when doing outdoor activities in new england the biggest issue is the wind.
if you have good WINDPROOF outer layers you'll be golden. i mainly go up to ski or climb, and my days usually begin at 3 am'ish and end at 1-2'ish. i'm usually hiking up below tree line with just a poly-pro base layer top and bottom, poly-pro cap and liner glvoes, ie no outer layers on. even at -20. below tree line the wind is usually really mellow, so all you need is a thin layer to trap your heat- just use your mitochondria to warm your ass up!
Jan 13, 2009, 12:41 AM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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I've never climbed there, but it seems to me that having just one sleeping bag is strange. I mean, the guy who plans to camp overnight drags the others down, but is the only comfortable person because he came prepared? C'mon. That guy would be camping by himself if he tried that shit with me. Leave the sleeping bags at home. It's a day trip, for Christ's sake.
Also, I can't imagine going without a shovel. I've never been to Mt. Washington, but for alpine trips a shovel is mandatory IMO.
And a GPS kicks ass over cairns, flags, etc. Waypoints never blow away or get obscured in white outs. And you'll never run out of flags. Bring it if you got it.
Leave the poles. An axe is all you should need, unless you're carrying a heavy pack.
It seems to me you're carrying too much clothes for a day trip, when you're never sitting around for long enough to get cold. I'd cut the fleece layer out entirely.
That's my $0.02. (Keep in mind that I live in California where the weather is always perfect.)
Jan 13, 2009, 3:51 PM
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Re: [angry] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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angry wrote:
. If you plan to stay overnight, you will. Meaning that if you bring all the stuff needed to spend the night you'll be so slowed by it that you'll definitely spend the night.
.
this is gospel and written about numerous times, angry has spoken and spoken wisely!
Jan 13, 2009, 4:11 PM
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Re: [andrewd] WOULD YOU TAKE A SLEEPING BAG ON MT. WASHINGTON WINTER HIKE (DAY HIKE TO SUMMIT)
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I did Mt. Washington in Feb a couple of years ago and the weather up there is no joke! How heavy is your sleeping bag? a 2lb down bag is not going to slow you down. Weather was great for us going up but once we hit the summit the wind picked up and whiteout conditions had us shitting in our pants. There is no place to hide from wiind up there, so a 2lb bag would totally be worth the weight.
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