Jan 16, 2009, 3:02 PM
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Re: [rsmillbern] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Not everyone wants to climb outside, but most of those who do, take the route that is presented to them.
If they know a group who boulders, it's likely that they will join them and boulder too. If they are introduced to a "group top-rope" type when they start climbing, they'll end up in that scenario.
Not everyone starts climbing and gets as into as others. Some people only go out once a year, once a month, once in a while....These types aren't likely to explore avenues that take more self-motivation(finding partners, investing in gear, learning systems).
For those who are quite into climbing, I think the "you climb what's near you" is probably the TOP reason as to why people climb what they do. I don't mind sport climbing, but there isn't any near me. If I lived somewhere where there were sport crags, sure I'd climb there. And I like bouldering, but don't have a group of bouldering friends - so I rarely boulder, except when I am alone.
The "too expensive"(gear) is sort of funny, when you see someone write it, and then go to their profile and see they've got some brand new vehicle, are sporting Prana and Patagonia outfits, and got the latest cel-phone set up.....
Jan 16, 2009, 3:33 PM
Post #28 of 71
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Re: [happiegrrrl] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Ditto on the "cost of gear" fallacy.
I went from TR straight to trad in my first year of climbing. I kept that up for a couple more years with a sub-$200 rack (11 stoppers, 6 tricams, 8 hexes). My attitude was "If this climb was FA'd on passive gear, dammit I can do it, too!" :D
Jan 16, 2009, 4:00 PM
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Re: [keinangst] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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petsfed wrote:
It is entirely a function of what is available.
This is what I believe to be the bulk of the "truth" also.
I find it hard to believe that a climber who purely boulders wouldn't climb sport or trad (and even buy a harness and draws) because of lack of funds... unless they spent it all on pot.
In my early years I would scrape together anything I could as a rack for the opportunity to climb routes, even if it meant borrowing hexes from a friend or running it out on crack sizes I didn't have. It's all about doing what you want and what you have the drive to do to make you happy!
I'm sure a lot of boulderers would have tried sport and/or trad, given the opportunity, and felt it didn't suit them. I'm sure there are plenty of boulderers too who have access to any kind of climbing and still prefer to just boulder, whether they have money and gear or not.
keinangst wrote:
Ditto on the "cost of gear" fallacy.
I went from TR straight to trad in my first year of climbing. I kept that up for a couple more years with a sub-$200 rack (11 stoppers, 6 tricams, 8 hexes). My attitude was "If this climb was FA'd on passive gear, dammit I can do it, too!" :D
This is an awesome way to climb trad! I actually love to try climbs with purely passive pro... it's a great way to increase confidence and as you say, much cheaper!
Jan 16, 2009, 4:40 PM
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Re: [kachoong] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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kachoong wrote:
In my early years I would scrape together anything I could as a rack for the opportunity to climb routes, even if it meant borrowing hexes from a friend or running it out on crack sizes I didn't have. It's all about doing what you want and what you have the drive to do to make you happy!
Ditto. I've been climbing for about 25 years. Made the jump from top-rope to leading as soon as I could scrape up enough money to buy a few pieces. I think my fist rack consisted of about 10 WC Rocks and 3 or 4 hexes. Tied about 8 runners out of one-inch webbing. Off to the Gunks I went. First night back in town: bought two small tri-cmas. That was IT for the first few years. I still only own 4 SLCDs -- and hardly ever use them.
You absolutely do not need to spend 1000s of dollars to get started with leading routes.
Jan 16, 2009, 4:53 PM
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Re: [kachoong] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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kachoong wrote:
petsfed wrote:
It is entirely a function of what is available.
This is what I believe to be the bulk of the "truth" also.
except for when you see people exclusively bouldering at places like the new river gorge (abundant both sport and trad), it sort of makes you wonder.
i led sport for several years before i started any trad climbing. part of that was that the people i learned to climb with were sport climbers...
but a big part of it was that people were always like "OMGZ, trad climbing!!1!!, better start on a nice 5.4!" and i was like "fuck that, i'm having fun climbing 5.11 sport. 5.4 is gullies and BORING."
Jan 16, 2009, 5:39 PM
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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I do sport. Iam working on buliding up a rack for Trad but the gear is SO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it will be proably another 6 mo befor Ill have a good functional rack.
Jan 16, 2009, 5:50 PM
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Re: [stonefox] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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I love the way threads get hammered in a blunt and exciting way, I do it myself aswell. Maybe I didn't make my opening statement clear enough, I'm not talking about people who have been there and done that, I'm talking about the new generation of climbers. As far as in why asking why, just because! An argument arose between a friend and I, so I wanted to see what rc thought. Most of you had some good insight, and I think it's a combo of both fear and lack of green that stops a newer climber from pushin on. It's a happy thought to climb with only passive and it can be done, but man cams look so cool,LOL. The poll is showin some results, but I wish it could show more. Oh and valarc I'm just f'in with ya, I think you are pretty cool guy, as I've seen in your other posts. The best out of all of our senses is common sense and a sense of humor! If you are around So Cal, hit me up and we can do some trad......... Weak sauce motherfucker!
Jan 16, 2009, 6:07 PM
Post #36 of 71
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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The poll options are lame...
The reason why I like sport climbing, and why I started sport climbing first when I started climbing outside regularly: -it is easy. -the gear requirements are pretty straightforward and cheaper. A set of 15 quickdraws and a rope will get you up a sport climb pretty much anywhere. -it allows for a larger margin of safety. WHen you first start climbing, the fall is scary enough on it's own, without worrying whether your gear placement is bomber or not.
The reason why I started trad climbing: -it appeals to my sense of style. - I want to climb some (many) of the routes that will never be bolted b/c of the history attached to them, so if I want to climb them, I needed to learn how. -I like the idea (theoretical at this point) of coming across a climb, a clean blank rock, and just climbing it-- without depending on whether someone else had climbed it before you and placed the bolts for you to clip.
The reason why I don't like bouldering outside: -bad landings suck -crash pad takes up a lot of space, and carrying it around is the task I prefer to leave to others -the idea of toping out on a multi-pitch climb is a lot more appealing to me than the idea of topping out on a 15-ft boulder
The reason why I like bouldering and toproping in the gym: -it is good training for someone who is unfortunate enough to live in Cleveland -it is fun and social.
Jan 16, 2009, 6:14 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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lena_chita wrote:
The poll options are lame...
The reason why I like sport climbing, and why I started sport climbing first when I started climbing outside regularly: -it is easy. -the gear requirements are pretty straightforward and cheaper. A set of 15 quickdraws and a rope will get you up a sport climb pretty much anywhere. -it allows for a larger margin of safety. WHen you first start climbing, the fall is scary enough on it's own, without worrying whether your gear placement is bomber or not.
The reason why I started trad climbing: -it appeals to my sense of style. - I want to climb some (many) of the routes that will never be bolted b/c of the history attached to them, so if I want to climb them, I needed to learn how. -I like the idea (theoretical at this point) of coming across a climb, a clean blank rock, and just climbing it-- without depending on whether someone else had climbed it before you and placed the bolts for you to clip.
The reason why I don't like bouldering outside: -bad landings suck -crash pad takes up a lot of space, and carrying it around is the task I prefer to leave to others -the idea of toping out on a multi-pitch climb is a lot more appealing to me than the idea of topping out on a 15-ft boulder
The reason why I like bouldering and toproping in the gym: -it is good training for someone who is unfortunate enough to live in Cleveland -it is fun and social.
It's great to know why you climb what you climb, but do you know someone who hasn't fallen in your footsteps and know why not? I'm looking for people who haven't done it and why..
Jan 16, 2009, 6:26 PM
Post #38 of 71
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Sin wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
The poll options are lame...
The reason why I like sport climbing, and why I started sport climbing first when I started climbing outside regularly: -it is easy. -the gear requirements are pretty straightforward and cheaper. A set of 15 quickdraws and a rope will get you up a sport climb pretty much anywhere. -it allows for a larger margin of safety. WHen you first start climbing, the fall is scary enough on it's own, without worrying whether your gear placement is bomber or not.
The reason why I started trad climbing: -it appeals to my sense of style. - I want to climb some (many) of the routes that will never be bolted b/c of the history attached to them, so if I want to climb them, I needed to learn how. -I like the idea (theoretical at this point) of coming across a climb, a clean blank rock, and just climbing it-- without depending on whether someone else had climbed it before you and placed the bolts for you to clip.
The reason why I don't like bouldering outside: -bad landings suck -crash pad takes up a lot of space, and carrying it around is the task I prefer to leave to others -the idea of toping out on a multi-pitch climb is a lot more appealing to me than the idea of topping out on a 15-ft boulder
The reason why I like bouldering and toproping in the gym: -it is good training for someone who is unfortunate enough to live in Cleveland -it is fun and social.
It's great to know why you climb what you climb, but do you know someone who hasn't fallen in your footsteps and know why not? I'm looking for people who haven't done it and why..
Its been said again and again and AGAIN.
Either you can't read, or you're specifically ignoring the facts that you diagree with.
Hell, I talk to my students, in an introductory rock climbing class, and the reason they aren't out cranking the rad cracks is simply because they don't know anybody with a rack, or the means to use it. The reason they aren't climbing sport is because there's hardly any worth doing near here. The reason they aren't bouldering is because they don't know about what is available, or they don't know anybody with a pad.
What you climb is determined by WHAT IS AVAILABLE, either in terms of climbs, or people to climb with.
Jan 16, 2009, 6:48 PM
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Re: [petsfed] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Then get the hell off of it, is it as addicting as crack? I'm 10 mins away from good sport, and 1hr 20mins away from Josh, everything is fucking available where I am at. At the local gym, and local craigs, boulders and top ropers out number sport leaders 30 to 1, and trad climbers 100 to 1. Being that they are so damned close to all types of climbing why don't people climb? I'm not talking about your situation, which sucks by the way, and stop taking it so personal. In SOCAL people flock to the boulders and top rope and ignore the other disciplines while knowing about them. Either way I got a response to another question I had, and the entertainment value was alright.
Jan 16, 2009, 6:49 PM
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Sin wrote:
I love the way threads get hammered in a blunt and exciting way, I do it myself aswell. Maybe I didn't make my opening statement clear enough, I'm not talking about people who have been there and done that, I'm talking about the new generation of climbers. As far as in why asking why, just because! An argument arose between a friend and I, so I wanted to see what rc thought. Most of you had some good insight, and I think it's a combo of both fear and lack of green that stops a newer climber from pushin on. It's a happy thought to climb with only passive and it can be done, but man cams look so cool,LOL. The poll is showin some results, but I wish it could show more. Oh and valarc I'm just f'in with ya, I think you are pretty cool guy, as I've seen in your other posts. The best out of all of our senses is common sense and a sense of humor! If you are around So Cal, hit me up and we can do some trad......... Weak sauce motherfucker!
you're forgetting probably the biggest reason noted thus far: availability. Several people have noted this, and that has little to do with fear or money.
Jan 16, 2009, 6:51 PM
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Sin wrote:
Then get the hell off of it, is it as addicting as crack? I'm 10 mins away from good sport, and 1hr 20mins away from Josh, everything is fucking available where I am at. At the local gym, and local craigs, boulders and top ropers out number sport leaders 30 to 1, and trad climbers 100 to 1. Being that they are so damned close to all types of climbing why don't people climb? I'm not talking about your situation, which sucks by the way, and stop taking it so personal. In SOCAL people flock to the boulders and top rope and ignore the other disciplines while knowing about them. Either way I got a response to another question I had, and the entertainment value was alright.
-Sin
Well, then, sounds like you didn't ask the question right: why do people who live in the J-Tree area and also only climb one style stick to that one style only?
Because then you would have had the pleasure of leaving everyone else's comments out. Just sayin.
Jan 16, 2009, 7:02 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
Sin wrote:
Then get the hell off of it, is it as addicting as crack? I'm 10 mins away from good sport, and 1hr 20mins away from Josh, everything is fucking available where I am at. At the local gym, and local craigs, boulders and top ropers out number sport leaders 30 to 1, and trad climbers 100 to 1. Being that they are so damned close to all types of climbing why don't people climb? I'm not talking about your situation, which sucks by the way, and stop taking it so personal. In SOCAL people flock to the boulders and top rope and ignore the other disciplines while knowing about them. Either way I got a response to another question I had, and the entertainment value was alright.
-Sin
Well, then, sounds like you didn't ask the question right: why do people who live in the J-Tree area and also only climb one style stick to that one style only?
Because then you would have had the pleasure of leaving everyone else's comments out. Just sayin.
Well it's not only about trad, you can still lead sport in a gym, and I would think that most people have a gym at least one hour away from their area. Some one from florida can still give an opinion on why they think it is the way it is. And you are right I didn't pose the right question, but it sure was fun and it kept me busy for a bit. I would say " good all around climbing area" instead of just josh. And I'm not looking to know why someone prefers one style over another, but instead what limits people from trying said style, in an area where all forms are available. That sounds better.
Jan 16, 2009, 7:03 PM
Post #47 of 71
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Sin wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, but it's not about whats more convenient to what i'm referring to. What I want to know is why people don't take up other forms of the sport, other than top roping and bouldering, having all forms present? If you climb sport or lead trad, what do you think keeps people from pursuing the other art forms? I personally think its the technical aspect and the cost of said forms that shy away newer climbers. My buddy thinks that kids aren't as "crazy" ,to not say wussies, as back then. What do you think, or are flocks of people learning how to climb sport and trad? If you boulder or sport, why haven't you pursued the other forms? If you climb trad or sport, I'm not looking to know why you don't boulder...........
-Sin
I quit climbing sport because I don't like not having control over where my pro gets placed and I got sick of having to wade through massive groups to get on the lines I wanted. Also, I'm much more interested in crack climbing than face climbing, and can't be bothered with slab, so trad's the logical choice.
Jan 16, 2009, 7:03 PM
Post #48 of 71
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Sin wrote:
Then get the hell off of it, is it as addicting as crack? I'm 10 mins away from good sport, and 1hr 20mins away from Josh, everything is fucking available where I am at. At the local gym, and local craigs, boulders and top ropers out number sport leaders 30 to 1, and trad climbers 100 to 1. Being that they are so damned close to all types of climbing why don't people climb? I'm not talking about your situation, which sucks by the way, and stop taking it so personal. In SOCAL people flock to the boulders and top rope and ignore the other disciplines while knowing about them. Either way I got a response to another question I had, and the entertainment value was alright.
-Sin
Right off hand, I'm 20 minutes from the JTree of the north, I'm an hour north of Poudre Canyon, Horsetooth, and the entire Colorado Front Range. Wild Iris and Sinks Canyon are 3 hours from me, Ten Sleep and Devil's Tower are 6 hours. I have quite a bit available to me, should I feel like it.
Nice assuming that Wyoming's empty though, keeps know-it-all pricks like you from coming up and clogging all the good lines.
Were I you, I'd climb an awful lot of sport, because that's what's close. But I might not, depending on what partners I can get.
But you're missing the one crucial thing that I've said, that several other people have said, that you're still not getting: if you can't find partners to climb trad with, you're not going to climb trad. Likewise for sport, or bouldering.
Clearly, in So Cal (which must be God's gift to climbing, the way you've brushed off our responses), there just aren't as many people skilled at sport or trad as there are climbers.
Or you frequent areas that are best for toproping (I know of quite a few crags that simply aren't worth leading). Or, has been already said, bouldering and top roping requires less of a TIME investment than the others. So, what's convenient.
Jan 16, 2009, 7:12 PM
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Re: [Sin] What's the real reason you don't do sport or trad?
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Sin wrote:
Being that they are so damned close to all types of climbing why don't people climb?
If you're surrounded by hookers and all you do is jerk off on the ugly one it's your own fault choice. That's what it comes down to....your choice... although money may be a factor in that case... so you need to tell us why.
Sin wrote:
At the local gym, and local craigs, boulders and top ropers out number sport leaders 30 to 1, and trad climbers 100 to 1.
Plus, I find it very hard to believe your ratios there.
(This post was edited by kachoong on Jan 16, 2009, 7:14 PM)
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