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maohaihuang
Nov 17, 2002, 8:02 PM
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I have seen a lot of people who can climb
low 5.10 (trad) without training. They
just climb, maybe once a week, for many
years. On sport routes it tops at about 6b-6c
or 5.10+ to 5.11- (sport or well protected
trad). What do you think the technical
level one can typically reach without ever
doing any climbing specific training?
To make it clear, I don't count "climbing a
lot" as training. By training I mean weight
lifting, finger board, doing repeatitive
moves that is designed to train... anything
activity that you wouldn't bother with were
not for its training effect.
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petsfed
Nov 17, 2002, 8:15 PM
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Technically climbing a lot is in and of itself training. I've met individuals who have redpointed 5.13b sport, without training. They just climb a lot. And that improves their technique and strenghth, although somewhat slower than pure training.
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bretterick
Nov 17, 2002, 8:54 PM
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climbing a lot is part of training, even if you are on a program, part of that would be climbing a lot.
I was guiding a bunch of people that had never climbed before (i worked for a dude ranch that had a climbing program) one guy on his first time climbing did a 5.10a
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frogman21
Nov 17, 2002, 9:18 PM
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I am an active person anyway but for instance I have done know climbing to speak of in 6 months and I still go out and climb up to hard 12 or hard 7 what ever grade system you are going by the real thing is just how good your technique is.. I have gone as much as 4 months or more with out climbing at all and managed to climb 12b- 7b so I believe the only thing I lost from not climbing was finger strength and endurance so I don't know I climb hard in one respect to begin with so I don't know if I am a good person to go by.. all I do know is that it depends a lot on your head!!! at the time of these dry spells in my climbing I had never touched a weight in my life.. on the other hand I do believe now that anyone who trains front lever or russian pullups they will climb harder!!
[ This Message was edited by: frogman21 on 2002-11-17 13:22 ]
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camhead
Nov 17, 2002, 9:23 PM
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Apart from the occassional doorjam pullup, the only training I do for climbing is climbing. There are TONS of folks out there (I being one of them), that climb harder than 5.11 with no training regimen.
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wildtrail
Nov 17, 2002, 9:31 PM
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It's different from person to person. PERIOD. I would naturally assume that most people could lead a 5.4 depending on the rock, their skill, and their psyche.
I wouldn't ever say what a person can climb. It truly differs from person to person. Besides, it (leading) isn't something you should just "jump into" with out experience on using protection, placing it, belaying, and anchors. "Jumpin in" could lead to serious injury (if not, worse).
Steve
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maohaihuang
Nov 18, 2002, 1:31 PM
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OK. Including unqualified "climb a lot"
muddied the question. I too know that if you
have a good area near by, and partners
to lead/push you, and you have
lots of motivation and time, there is
virtually no limit of how well you can
get. But that is not
a normal situation.
How about narrowing
the meaning of "climb a lot" to "climb
for a long time only for the love of
climbing"? If you climb one route just
because "this route is a good one for
practicing Gaston" then you are training.
If you are grade/number oriented climber
I guess a large part of your cragging
is actually training. But there are so many
goal oriented climbers it is indeed hard,
or maybe not possible, to separate
training and pure "for the love of it" climbing.
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kalcario
Nov 18, 2002, 2:31 PM
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If you can boulder V4 or 5 you should be able to climb enduro 13a, I find that once you get to 13b and c the moves are radically harder and you'd better be doing something extra than just training on the rock
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mattiem
Nov 18, 2002, 2:46 PM
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I hate to be the one to quote "the pros" but in his interview with climbing magazine Dave Ghram says that he doesn't train at all. No finger boards, weights, diets, or even a climbing schedule. He just climbs all the freaking time. He climbs 5.14d so iwould say that just climbing is enough to get to any level. I know people who climb up to 5.13 and have never done an specific training. Just climb all the time (without overtraining) and you will improve, but the weights and such may help you improve faster as you reach the higher grades.
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thomasribiere
Nov 18, 2002, 6:41 PM
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From 95 to 2001, I didn't train, and the max level I was easy in was 6a.
I've been training this 1 year (weights once a week, indoor climbing once a week, no more cigarettes, less alcohol and pot) : now I'm easy in 6b+.
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marks
Nov 18, 2002, 7:11 PM
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my friend climbs high .13's trad with no training.i also know someone else who has done f8b+!!!!!!!!!!!with no training.like others have said climbing is training.gyms dont help obviously.
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jt512
Nov 19, 2002, 12:11 AM
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Hi, Maohai. I redpointed 5.12a without doing any training, but plateaued there. In order to redpoint a 5.12b (and almost my first 5.12c, damn it!), I had to make a conscious effort to separately train power and endurance; however, I did that strictly with climbing endurance routes outdoors and bouldering in the gym. I've never done any serious campusing, fingerboard training, or weight training for climbing. Whether or not this was the most efficient approach is another question.
-Jay
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bluesky
Nov 20, 2002, 6:06 AM
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I've redpointed 13a sport and 12a crack without any serious 'training' - just lots of climbing over ten years. Lately I've started campusing so I can push my bouldering limits. I've seen others who have gone to this sort of level even fast than myself (7 even 5 years). I've started to 'train' just because I think it will be a little more time effective at improving - and there are classic lines waiting!!
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mreardon
Nov 27, 2002, 12:08 AM
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I hate these questions because you always sound like you're bragging, but I do not campus, hangboard or any of those "climber specific" things. My training for climbing is to climb. On a good week I'll climb 4 days, but most times it is only 3. My diet consists pretty much of fish, veggies, wine, cheese, ice cream, and cookies. If I see my weight go up, I limit the cookies (ice cream is a food group and should never be limited). Any "training" I might do is that I warm up before I pull harder climbs, and I warm down as well which I believe limits the injuries. Other than that, there are the occasional days in the gym where I'll do a handful of sit-ups and push ups. This being said, my hardest trad send is 5.12c at Joshua Tree (I'm working another 12c at J-Tree and will soon be going after a 13a and 13c in Tahoe as well as a classic 8 pitch 12a in the Needles next spring), I'm currently working a 13b sport and after getting it (hopefully next week!) will be going after a 13d/14a. My bouldering is lagging (V5-V8 level), but I've sent V8 (maybe it was a 9?), and this weekend will be going after a couple more around that level.
Almost everyone I know that climbs at any of these levels, does so by consistently climbing on a regular basis. Just my two cents....
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ecocliffchick
Nov 27, 2002, 3:33 PM
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Does bouldering count as training if you are only doing it indoors in the offseason to improve for sport climbing outdoors next season? The whole training/vs climbing issue seems strange. I typically train to climb by climbing. I'll do different styles of climbing in the offseason to work on my weaknesses. For me it's all climbing, and it's all training.
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hyhuu
Nov 27, 2002, 8:22 PM
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The saying "train like you fight and fight like you train" applies for climbing. So by saying climbing is not training would be silly. I think the question can be better asked is: Not counting the genetically gifted, how hard can an average and reasonably fit climber climb without "sport-specific" training (i.e, campusboard, lockoff etc.) My guess would be around 5.11.
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drector
Nov 27, 2002, 9:00 PM
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I've climbed for almost 3 years with mostly weekend climbs and a few lunch-hour climbs. I didn't skip many weekends in that time. I eat whatever I want and I could lose 25 pounds and not be skinny. I climb 5.10 to 5.11 depending on the route, weather, etc...
Even if you don't count climbing as training, there is a very wide range of talents and abilities. Too wide a range to say that any one rating level is achievable withouth "training." If I had been into climbing at age 16 then I probably could have sent a 5.12 and maybe a 5.13. I had lots of natural ability 22 years ago.
Dave
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