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caughtinside


Jan 15, 2009, 8:22 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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dude you lead 5.12 confidently. It's more or less the same thing. Dont' sell yourself short by leading 8 letter grades below what you lead confidently, that would be embarrasing.


USnavy


Jan 15, 2009, 8:24 PM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Well in about 60 days I will be attempting to lead my first multi-pitch climb in Red Rocks. Obviously it will be something easy at or under a 5.8 with heavy preference on a climb that has no run outs or shitty pro options. I can redpoint sport up to 5.12a confidently. I have a fairly good lead head on sport and I donít have a problem taking sport falls. So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general.

However, I am finding that although I am physically able to onsight the 5.10a and under trad climbs I have been trying out lately, I am having trouble getting my head together well leading them on trad. I find myself resting on gear when I donít actually need to and sitting below the crux for a long period of time wondering if I should go for it or not. Basically the same things a new sport leader would encounter well training to lead sport. All in all my trad experience is limited. I have a reasonable understanding of how to place pro and the correct usage of slings and such, I just donít have a ton of experience actually doing it.

I have seconded multi-pitch climbs before and I have a good understanding of the technical aspect of multi-pitch climbing. The only thing I think that I really need to work on to get through the easier climbs is getting a good lead head on trad and correct spacing of gear. I am finding myself using 7 Ė 10 cams on a 45 foot route and equalizing 3 cams below the crux which is way too excessive for longer pitches.

So all in all what is the best way to go about mentally training to lead multi-pitch routes? Obviously leading single pitch trad is a good start but is that it? Is just leading single pitch trad routes all one really needs to get mentally ready for a multi-pitch route or is there more to it? I have a feeling that just being solid on single pitch 40 foot trad lines wonít fully prepare you for being 130 feet above your belayer, 750 feet off the ground.

sounds like you have two different fear sets.

1st- is the whole leading above gear thing. this one just takes time and rate- and i would advise two things- if you're resting on gear, then you're climbing a route that's too hard for you- your first leads shouldnt involve resting on gear, this isnt sport climbing. second, if you cant have your feet above your last piece before you're placing gear again, then the route is too tough. you can push your limit physically or mentally, but not both. keep cranking it down until you can climb the route by scoping a stance, getting to it, placing gear, climbing until your feet are at or above the gear and repeating.

second- fear of heights/exposure. this is completely different from lead head- although it can affect your lead head, it may or may not, and really, there's no way to know whether it will until you're up there. the best advice on this one is 1) dont look past your feet until you're at an anchor and 2) dont climb a super-exposed route. not many routes in RR are that exposed at the 5.8 and below level- i'd say Birdland and the last pitch of Cat in the Hat are the only ones that have any sort of real exposure (the feeling of being WAY up there). oh, and dont worry about the heights thing at all- that shit will either fuck up your head or it wont and there's no point in working yourself up over it- most likely, you'll be fine. very few people really shut down at 500' off the deck.

the single most important issue with multipitch is time management. do not underestimate this. lets put it this way- in 7 years of climbing in red rocks, i've walked by the base of Solar Slab at dusk probably 50-60 times, and only ONE TIME in all those years have i been by and seen no one high on the route about to either spend the night or have one cold ass night trying to get down. and, seeing as you can retreat at any point on that route, i can account for all of those (or damn near) as bad time management.

All in all I am only looking to climb easy, basic, safe multi-pitch routes. I am not looking to push my limit or transfer over to being a trad climber. I just would like to enjoy some nice solid climbing on a multi-pitch route with good placement options. So what route suggestions do you have for a beginner? My partner(s) are / is also inexperienced and so we want to keep things simple and safe. The number one thing I would like to avoid, if possible, is run outs / crappy placements for extended lengths. I know that they are a part of serious multi-pitch climbing and I have to get use to them eventually, but I think it would be a really bad idea to face them at the beginning.

As a reference, I have seconded Crimson Chrysalis and I would not feel comfortable leading that route as my first multi-pitch lead. I remember there were slab sections that offered no placement opportunities and a bolt only every 20 - 30 feet for the first few pitches.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 15, 2009, 8:29 PM)


mar_leclerc


Jan 15, 2009, 8:32 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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If you want to avaid run-outs and sketchy situations make sure to go to a well established crag area. Don't head into the alpine or you may get yourself into trouble. My fist bigger routewas sorta mixed crag/alpine (Yak Peak) I had lead lots of trad at the crag and the only 5.10a moves had a couple bolts nearby. The hardest moves I had to do above gear were about 5.9 and the whole thing was a very enjoyable experience. Because I was ready to lead trad at that grade short unprotected sections of granola (decomposing) rock and long runouts here and there did not bother me. If you feel confident leading pure trad at the crag at a certain grade, just go for the not too commiting multipitch route at the same grade.
Good luck and tell us how it goes, unless you get scared, fall, blow all your peices, sever your rope over an edge and fall to your death. In which case you will have nothing to be scared of anymore because you will be dismembered on the ground.


vegastradguy


Jan 16, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
vegastradguy wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Well in about 60 days I will be attempting to lead my first multi-pitch climb in Red Rocks. Obviously it will be something easy at or under a 5.8 with heavy preference on a climb that has no run outs or shitty pro options. I can redpoint sport up to 5.12a confidently. I have a fairly good lead head on sport and I donít have a problem taking sport falls. So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general.

However, I am finding that although I am physically able to onsight the 5.10a and under trad climbs I have been trying out lately, I am having trouble getting my head together well leading them on trad. I find myself resting on gear when I donít actually need to and sitting below the crux for a long period of time wondering if I should go for it or not. Basically the same things a new sport leader would encounter well training to lead sport. All in all my trad experience is limited. I have a reasonable understanding of how to place pro and the correct usage of slings and such, I just donít have a ton of experience actually doing it.

I have seconded multi-pitch climbs before and I have a good understanding of the technical aspect of multi-pitch climbing. The only thing I think that I really need to work on to get through the easier climbs is getting a good lead head on trad and correct spacing of gear. I am finding myself using 7 Ė 10 cams on a 45 foot route and equalizing 3 cams below the crux which is way too excessive for longer pitches.

So all in all what is the best way to go about mentally training to lead multi-pitch routes? Obviously leading single pitch trad is a good start but is that it? Is just leading single pitch trad routes all one really needs to get mentally ready for a multi-pitch route or is there more to it? I have a feeling that just being solid on single pitch 40 foot trad lines wonít fully prepare you for being 130 feet above your belayer, 750 feet off the ground.

sounds like you have two different fear sets.

1st- is the whole leading above gear thing. this one just takes time and rate- and i would advise two things- if you're resting on gear, then you're climbing a route that's too hard for you- your first leads shouldnt involve resting on gear, this isnt sport climbing. second, if you cant have your feet above your last piece before you're placing gear again, then the route is too tough. you can push your limit physically or mentally, but not both. keep cranking it down until you can climb the route by scoping a stance, getting to it, placing gear, climbing until your feet are at or above the gear and repeating.

second- fear of heights/exposure. this is completely different from lead head- although it can affect your lead head, it may or may not, and really, there's no way to know whether it will until you're up there. the best advice on this one is 1) dont look past your feet until you're at an anchor and 2) dont climb a super-exposed route. not many routes in RR are that exposed at the 5.8 and below level- i'd say Birdland and the last pitch of Cat in the Hat are the only ones that have any sort of real exposure (the feeling of being WAY up there). oh, and dont worry about the heights thing at all- that shit will either fuck up your head or it wont and there's no point in working yourself up over it- most likely, you'll be fine. very few people really shut down at 500' off the deck.

the single most important issue with multipitch is time management. do not underestimate this. lets put it this way- in 7 years of climbing in red rocks, i've walked by the base of Solar Slab at dusk probably 50-60 times, and only ONE TIME in all those years have i been by and seen no one high on the route about to either spend the night or have one cold ass night trying to get down. and, seeing as you can retreat at any point on that route, i can account for all of those (or damn near) as bad time management.

All in all I am only looking to climb easy, basic, safe multi-pitch routes. I am not looking to push my limit or transfer over to being a trad climber. I just would like to enjoy some nice solid climbing on a multi-pitch route with good placement options. So what route suggestions do you have for a beginner? My partner(s) are / is also inexperienced and so we want to keep things simple and safe. The number one thing I would like to avoid, if possible, is run outs / crappy placements for extended lengths. I know that they are a part of serious multi-pitch climbing and I have to get use to them eventually, but I think it would be a really bad idea to face them at the beginning.

As a reference, I have seconded Crimson Chrysalis and I would not feel comfortable leading that route as my first multi-pitch lead. I remember there were slab sections that offered no placement opportunities and a bolt only every 20 - 30 feet for the first few pitches.

Lets see, if you're going to be here for the rendezvous and want routes that will not be run-out....

Geronimo, 5.6- ignore the guidebook beta on descent and rap the route with two ropes. If you go right, you'll epic.

Cat in the Hat, 5.6- you can rappel this route with a single 60m line, despite guidebook beta. pm me for the details.

Unfortunately, if you thought Crimson was run-out (and its not by any stretch of the imagination), that really limits your options. Here's a list of other classics that plenty of new folks do and are at a moderate grade.

Birdland, 5.7 - not really run-out, but it may feel like it as the 4th pitch requires some creativity to get good gear.

Dark Shadows, 5.8- run-out on the first pitch on 5.4 slab (two bolts and one piece of gear in the first 80' or so).

Johnny Vegas, 5.6+/5.7- kinda run-out on the second pitch if you're not paying attention, and a little run-out on the third where its like 5.3 or something.

Frogland, 5.8- the crux on this one is run-out and you gotta have a lead head screwed on for it. Not hard, just kinda weird.

also note that all of my recommendations are weather dependent. during the rendezvous, i've seen it in the 50s and i've seen it in the 90s, so take that under consideration.


elcapinyoazz


Jan 21, 2009, 2:51 PM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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If you thought the Crysalis was runnout, I don't really know what to tell you...maybe just stick to sport cragging.

You might try Black Orpheus, it had gear anywhere you'd reasonably need to protect including a bolt at your face for the one move crux. But even on that one I remember one easy pitch up top not really having much gear on dead easy low angle face climbing...maybe 5.5 or something.

If I were you, I'd go do Unimpeachable Groping. It's almost a sport route, guide calls for a light rack (I wouldn't take gear on a repeat ascent), with some spaced bolts you could supplement with gear to get that sackless closely spaced pro you so desire. We took a small rack but aside from placing a piece from the tree prior to clipping the first bolt, we didn't place any gear. You, however, wanting pro every 6ft, will place gear on it.

If you do that one, don't stop at the big ledge right below the roof crux, stop a little lower because the bolted belay on the ledge is missing a hangar on one stud(and the stud is super loose/hand removable). Better to build a gear belay below it, or use the prior bolted anchor and link the pitches.


vegastradguy


Jan 22, 2009, 6:17 AM
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Re: [elcapinyoazz] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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elcapinyoazz wrote:
If you do that one, don't stop at the big ledge right below the roof crux, stop a little lower because the bolted belay on the ledge is missing a hangar on one stud(and the stud is super loose/hand removable). Better to build a gear belay below it, or use the prior bolted anchor and link the pitches.

we fixed that anchor last spring, so it should be good to go now. (replaced the hangar, tightened the stud)


elcapinyoazz


Jan 22, 2009, 7:14 AM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
we fixed that anchor last spring, so it should be good to go now. (replaced the hangar, tightened the stud)

And I did the route in late Nov. It was phuk'd then, and that was only 2 months ago, so it ain't good to go AFAIK. No nut or hangar on the right hand stud, which had some mank webbing hitched to it. I pulled the stud out with my fingers.


(This post was edited by elcapinyoazz on Jan 22, 2009, 7:16 AM)


dingus


Jan 22, 2009, 8:14 AM
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Some really excellent advice in this thread.

I like the bit about self honesty.

I've seen over the course of 3 decades that many folks are in love with the idea of BEING a climber. A subset of that group actually loves the climbing itself.

Repeatedly, the ones who seem to actually LOVE the climbing? They take the reigns of their own climbing careers and get after it.

While all of this advice seems sound and sensible?

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING replaces the initiative of someone who WANTS to learn. Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

This stuff can be self taught from a 40 year old climbing how to book. If you WANT to lead multipitch - you will.

"Will" is the operative term in this, as it is in all forms of climbing.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

Belay switch overs in under 5 minutes, that's my technical advice. No lolligagging.

DMT


erolls


Jan 22, 2009, 10:13 AM
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Re: [dingus] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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All good advice so far.

Dingus' reply is right on and probably the most important.

You are the only one who will make happen... so get after it.

Just be smart and have fun.

-E


AlexCV


Jan 22, 2009, 3:08 PM
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Re: [caughtinside] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
dude you lead 5.12 confidently. It's more or less the same thing. Dont' sell yourself short by leading 8 letter grades below what you lead confidently, that would be embarrasing.

Unless he has no crack climbing skills, at which point even a 5.6 might terrify him in practice.


clausti


Jan 22, 2009, 6:34 PM
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Re: [AlexCV] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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AlexCV wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
dude you lead 5.12 confidently. It's more or less the same thing. Dont' sell yourself short by leading 8 letter grades below what you lead confidently, that would be embarrasing.

Unless he has no crack climbing skills, at which point even a 5.6 might terrify him in practice.

crack climbing isn't fucking rocket science. if you're strong enough to consistently lead 5.12 sport, you can god damn lay back the 5.9 crack if you've got to.


USnavy


Jan 22, 2009, 8:38 PM
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Re: [dingus] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

I donít have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. Thatís the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and thatís helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks. Smile


mistajman


Jan 22, 2009, 10:11 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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TIE KNOTS IN THE BOTTOM OF YOUR ROPE WHEN RAPPELLING!!!!

Dark Shadows would be a good route
or cat in the hat


aerili


Jan 22, 2009, 11:30 PM
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Re: [vegastradguy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
Birdland, 5.7 - not really run-out, but it may feel like it as the 4th pitch requires some creativity to get good gear.

Yes, this might be good. For the grade, I thought Birdland had a lot of easy climbing. I just remember needing several very small cams (like small Alien or C3 size), so make sure you have them.

Someone else mentioned Black Orpheus. Even though it has a lot of relatively easy climbing and the crux is a sport move, I think this is a terrible beginner trad leader route. The approach and route is way too long for time management-challenged people, the rap/walk off a nightmare for sport climbers unused to route finding, and weather epics can and do occur on it, regardless of how sunny the day starts out.


Edited to add: otherwise (about the psychological and intellectual training required) I think rgold's post was "gold"!


(This post was edited by aerili on Jan 22, 2009, 11:53 PM)


altelis


Jan 23, 2009, 6:15 AM
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Re: [mistajman] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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mistajman wrote:
TIE KNOTS IN THE BOTTOM OF YOUR ROPE WHEN RAPPELLING!!!!

Dark Shadows would be a good route
or cat in the hat



your dogmatic approach to rappelling may just be enough to earn USNavy that epic he so desires to launch him into the realm of multipitch-god.

knots in the end of your rap line is NOT always the best approach, and honestly, in my experience is RARELY the best approach. Esp somewhere as renowned for eating rap lines as red-rocks is.


dingus


Jan 23, 2009, 7:40 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

I donít have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. Thatís the point of the thread.

All right - my advice Hawaii-man (I know the limited resources with which you deal):

1. Onsite EVERYTHING. Do NOT dog ANY routes, period. Ratchet DOWN your grade asipraitons to the point you can lead every climb you do without resorting to aid. Now do those routes repeatedly. Try to do (considering route length here) between 10-20 pitches each day you go out. Relead the same routes over and over if you must - but get used to logging mileage, not grades and projects.

Projecting will seriously hold you back in moderate trad.

The biggest psychological issue imo, is this - you have to embrace the inherent risk of moderate trad. You are going to HAVE to accept you will ROUTINELY be facing maiming falls on moderate terrain and you must reconcile yourself to that notion.

It takes audacity to some extent. A lot of us deploy ignorace (as in ignoring the reality of the dangers) as a defensive mechanism.

And trad WILL put you in situations where nothing but your fingers, toes, and the power of your mind (and nothing else) is that will keep you alive. It WILL. If you find that possibility unacceptable then you'll either have to go through a transformation or you are going to be miserable.

Cheers
DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on Jan 23, 2009, 7:42 AM)


wanderlustmd


Jan 23, 2009, 9:44 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general.
After skimming your ascent log, it looks like you TR more than anything else. Not to be a dick, but don't get in over your head, that's when bad things can occur. At this stage, if you want to climb a multipitch, find someone more experienced who's willing to lead the whole thing and give you some pitches if it's something you can handle. Challenge yourself in the right ways (like what vegastradguy said) but don't rush!


kachoong


Jan 23, 2009, 10:33 AM
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USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

I donít have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. Thatís the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and thatís helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks. Smile

If you're going to Red Rocks at the time of the Rendezvous sign up for the Multi-pitch efficiency clinic and refine what you learn from now until then.


USnavy


Jan 23, 2009, 10:41 AM
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Re: [wanderlustmd] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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wanderlustmd wrote:
USnavy wrote:
So I have a reasonable amount of experience leading in general.
After skimming your ascent log, it looks like you TR more than anything else. Not to be a dick, but don't get in over your head, that's when bad things can occur. At this stage, if you want to climb a multipitch, find someone more experienced who's willing to lead the whole thing and give you some pitches if it's something you can handle. Challenge yourself in the right ways (like what vegastradguy said) but don't rush!

I donít TR more than anything, I lead more than anything. Many of those TR assents are TR only routes; they canít be lead. Many of my redpoints are not logged for the routes are not in the database yet. Others are R rated and thus I donít lead them. Some are 5.11 trad and I canít lead trad that hard so I only TR'ed them. But I do get a lot of mileage on lead. I lead every chance I get. The only time I donít lead is if my partner does not know how to lead belay or if I am trying to work out the moves on a specific climb or if the route is overly dangerous (R / X). I would be absolutely insane to think I could lead any multi-pitch if I backed out on leading safe sport routes.

Also, why are you guys referring to this as moderate trad? I also noticed my guidebook refers to many of the 5.7 and 8 multi-pitch routes as moderate trad. I was more under the assumption that the 5.6ís, 7ís were more like beginner trad then anything. Obviously multi-pitch in general is more moderate then equivalently graded single pitch but none the less I would think a grad that easy would qualify as a beginner route unless its R / X or very hard to stay on route.


USnavy


Jan 23, 2009, 10:44 AM
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Re: [kachoong] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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kachoong wrote:
USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

I donít have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. Thatís the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and thatís helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks. Smile

If you're going to Red Rocks at the time of the Rendezvous sign up for the Multi-pitch efficiency clinic and refine what you learn from now until then.

I was considering that. Right now I am signed up for hard sport, soft catch but I was thinking of changing it. Do you know specifically what that class entails? Obviously itís about multi-pitch but is it a ground class or do they actually take you to a multi-pitch route?


Partner angry


Jan 23, 2009, 10:52 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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kachoong


Jan 23, 2009, 10:58 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
kachoong wrote:
USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

I donít have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. Thatís the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and thatís helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks. Smile

If you're going to Red Rocks at the time of the Rendezvous sign up for the Multi-pitch efficiency clinic and refine what you learn from now until then.

I was considering that. Right now I am signed up for hard sport, soft catch but I was thinking of changing it. Do you know specifically what that class entails? Obviously itís about multi-pitch but is it a ground class or do they actually take you to a multi-pitch route?

Well, the clinic details haven't been updated at all, but the description so far says:

In reply to:
This is your chance to learn Muti-pitch systems with a focus on options for equipment, route finding, reading topos, belaying, safety, speed and rope management.

I would imagine it's taught on a fairly accessible "moderate" trad route, with some ground schooling taught at the base. I've never attended such a clinic so I don't know for sure.

If I were you, I'd ditch "hard sport" and take up "multi-pitch efficiency" instead, but it depends what you want out of the clinics.


(This post was edited by kachoong on Jan 23, 2009, 11:01 AM)


altelis


Jan 23, 2009, 11:05 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
I donít TR more than anything, I lead more than anything. Many of those TR assents are TR only routes; they canít be lead. Many of my redpoints are not logged for the routes are not in the database yet. Others are R rated and thus I donít lead them. Some are 5.11 trad and I canít lead trad that hard so I only TR'ed them. But I do get a lot of mileage on lead. I lead every chance I get. The only time I donít lead is if my partner does not know how to lead belay or if I am trying to work out the moves on a specific climb or if the route is overly dangerous (R / X). I would be absolutely insane to think I could lead any multi-pitch if I backed out on leading safe sport routes.



listen, i want to preface this by stating this next bit is not meant to be JUDGMENTAL but rather DESCRIPTIVE. if you feel judged by the comment i would suggest looking inwardly and figuring out why.

an approach to climbing or a mindset that top-ropes to work out moves rather than trying to push forward in the face of a fall may be one that does not work well in the face of teaching-one-self how to climb multipitch trad.

not saying your approach is WRONG- but i am suggesting that you may find that, with this mindset, finding a mentor is a better way to go. i actually just started a thread somewhat about this: http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2064811#2064811


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Jan 23, 2009, 11:06 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
dingus wrote:

Get your ass on some routes and lead them. If you want to lead, LEAD. Stop hiding behind a training regime.

Suck it up buttercup - On Belay. Now STUF and start climbing, we have a route to send.

I donít have any multi-pitch where I live to climb. Thatís the point of the thread. I am trying to figure out what I can do in the two months I have left to help prepare for the multi-pitch routes when I get to Red Rocks.

And I have been leading. I have lead 90% of the last 75 sport routes I climbed. I always prefer to lead as so long as the route is not R or X. I have been messing around trying to lead some 10a trad routes lately instead of my normal 11+ / 12- sport regime to train for the multi-pitch routes and thatís helped a lot increasing my confidence climbing on gear. I figure if I can get to the point where I am confident on 5.10- on gear I will be fine on the 6's, 7', and 8' in Red Rocks. Smile
On your beloved sport routes instead of clipping into the anchors and lowering, set an anchor and belay your second up to you. Un-cluster things and lower - or better yet, traverse to another anchor and repeat. Rap off when done.


858jason


Jan 23, 2009, 11:20 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Training to lead multi-pitch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
Obviously itís about multi-pitch but is it a ground class or do they actually take you to a multi-pitch route?

A friend of mine took that clinic last year, with Tommy and Beth. They set up Cat in the Hat and hauled all 8 students up. With 10 people on a team, you really need to learn quickly how to be efficient.

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