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macblaze
Jan 25, 2009, 9:07 PM
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So I was in the gym today playing around: escaping a belay, rapping down a single rope to get to my unconscious belayer... a bunch of different things, and it occurred to me (right after I walked over and got another carabiner) that I often don't have enough gear withing reach when belaying outside.
My pack is often in the shade 15 feet away and All I have on my harness is the atc and 1 locking biner... no prussic, no webbing not even another biner. As of today I am going to make sure that I (and my partners) are thinking ahead a bit.
But I was wondering what you'all think is the minimum gear to have withing reach? I assume multipitch is less of an issue as I tend to carry an extra sling and biner even if I am just following but a single pitch... especially if its someplace easy...
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coastal_climber
Jan 25, 2009, 9:53 PM
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It probably seems excessive to most, but I have 3 pulleys, 4 prussiks, and 2 anchor setups on my harness at all times.
>Cam
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 25, 2009, 10:02 PM
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How would one go about getting down to a belayer who's hurt, unconscious, or otherwise in trouble? That seems like one of those situations where if you screw up, you end up as a second victim, especially if you're on the other end of an ATC (or other non-autolocking belay).
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shoo
Jan 25, 2009, 10:14 PM
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: How would one go about getting down to a belayer who's hurt, unconscious, or otherwise in trouble? That seems like one of those situations where if you screw up, you end up as a second victim, especially if you're on the other end of an ATC (or other non-autolocking belay).
The academic answer: it depends and it's complicated.
Self-rescue is not simple. There are a few literature sources to read to get some info if you're interested (and you should be), but formal courses or mentoring are the way to go.
Books include: Self-Rescue by David Fasulo, and Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills.
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 25, 2009, 10:16 PM
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Thanks for the book ideas, I'm definitely gonna start reading up on some of it. I've read some stuff, but most of what I've looked through was about rescuing others, and not as much about self-rescue. However, now that I think about it, self-rescue seems like something very, very important to know so that you aren't relying entirely on someone else for your safety.
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shockabuku
Jan 25, 2009, 10:28 PM
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macblaze wrote: So I was in the gym today playing around: escaping a belay, rapping down a single rope to get to my unconscious belayer... a bunch of different things, and it occurred to me (right after I walked over and got another carabiner) that I often don't have enough gear withing reach when belaying outside. My pack is often in the shade 15 feet away and All I have on my harness is the atc and 1 locking biner... no prussic, no webbing not even another biner. As of today I am going to make sure that I (and my partners) are thinking ahead a bit. But I was wondering what you'all think is the minimum gear to have withing reach? I assume multipitch is less of an issue as I tend to carry an extra sling and biner even if I am just following but a single pitch... especially if its someplace easy...
If you're on the ground belaying why would you have to escape the belay, rappel, or any of that self-rescue stuff?
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shoo
Jan 25, 2009, 10:28 PM
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: Thanks for the book ideas, I'm definitely gonna start reading up on some of it. I've read some stuff, but most of what I've looked through was about rescuing others, and not as much about self-rescue. However, now that I think about it, self-rescue seems like something very, very important to know so that you aren't relying entirely on someone else for your safety.
Self-rescue is a bit of a difficult term. It means rescue of yourself and you climbing partner(s) without the use of a third party rescue team. It doesn't just mean rescuing yourself.
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 25, 2009, 10:51 PM
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Okay, thank you for correcting my misuse of the term.
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macblaze
Jan 25, 2009, 11:13 PM
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shockabuku wrote: macblaze wrote: So I was in the gym today playing around: escaping a belay, rapping down a single rope to get to my unconscious belayer... a bunch of different things, and it occurred to me (right after I walked over and got another carabiner) that I often don't have enough gear withing reach when belaying outside. My pack is often in the shade 15 feet away and All I have on my harness is the atc and 1 locking biner... no prussic, no webbing not even another biner. As of today I am going to make sure that I (and my partners) are thinking ahead a bit. But I was wondering what you'all think is the minimum gear to have withing reach? I assume multipitch is less of an issue as I tend to carry an extra sling and biner even if I am just following but a single pitch... especially if its someplace easy... If you're on the ground belaying why would you have to escape the belay, rappel, or any of that self-rescue stuff?
If my partner took a bad fall onto a ledge or rock and possible suffered back or neck injury and was dangling unconscious, I might think twice about lowering him, at which point somehow I have to get out of the situation.
And at this point I think anything could happen and I'm a better climber for being prepared for it...
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macblaze
Jan 25, 2009, 11:15 PM
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: Thanks for the book ideas, I'm definitely gonna start reading up on some of it. I've read some stuff, but most of what I've looked through was about rescuing others, and not as much about self-rescue. However, now that I think about it, self-rescue seems like something very, very important to know so that you aren't relying entirely on someone else for your safety.
And I can tell you from my recent experiences, reading isn't going to cut it. Rig something up in your garage, ask the gym if they'll let you practice or spend a day practice in rock rather than climbing. Frickin knots are a lot harder when they're weighted 
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cannibal_hect0r
Jan 25, 2009, 11:39 PM
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I'll admit my level of outdoor climbing experience is limited (hoping to change that this spring/summer due to acquisition of more gear).
I picked up a self rescue book last year and have also practiced a bit in the gym. since reading this book over and over I plan to keep two rescue loops, a pulley (metal, not nylon) 2 pieces of 7mm cordage (a waist prussik and a foot prussik) and maybe a 30ft cordalette (also 7mm) in addition to at least two non locking biner to use for bachmann hitches.
The whole set up fits nicely onto a pezl William locking biner.
as a side note, anyone take the self rescue class through yosemite's mountaineering school? i plan to do it this april/may & was wondering about feedback.
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shockabuku
Jan 26, 2009, 12:06 AM
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I think from a practical point you're being overly paranoid. How long can your partner survive hanging in his/her harness? Speed is important. Do you have another rope? If you don't lower him/her what can you possibly do?
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Hotpies
Jan 26, 2009, 12:29 AM
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shockabuku wrote: macblaze wrote: So I was in the gym today playing around: escaping a belay, rapping down a single rope to get to my unconscious belayer... a bunch of different things, and it occurred to me (right after I walked over and got another carabiner) that I often don't have enough gear withing reach when belaying outside. My pack is often in the shade 15 feet away and All I have on my harness is the atc and 1 locking biner... no prussic, no webbing not even another biner. As of today I am going to make sure that I (and my partners) are thinking ahead a bit. But I was wondering what you'all think is the minimum gear to have withing reach? I assume multipitch is less of an issue as I tend to carry an extra sling and biner even if I am just following but a single pitch... especially if its someplace easy... If you're on the ground belaying why would you have to escape the belay, rappel, or any of that self-rescue stuff?
Maybe they've lead up past the halfway point of the rope and can't be lowered.
(This post was edited by Hotpies on Jan 26, 2009, 12:29 AM)
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taydude
Jan 26, 2009, 1:16 AM
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why would you need a pulley? for hauling? I'd imagine for most situations you'd have enough biners and prussics to manage something if you're on multipitch and have a rack on you.
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d0nk3yk0n9
Jan 26, 2009, 1:19 AM
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shockabuku wrote: I think from a practical point you're being overly paranoid.
I would rather be prepared for anything than get into a situation where I could do something about it, but can't because I didn't expect it to happen.
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coastal_climber
Jan 26, 2009, 4:00 AM
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taydude wrote: why would you need a pulley? for hauling? I'd imagine for most situations you'd have enough biners and prussics to manage something if you're on multipitch and have a rack on you.
Rescue takes a long time - too long. Any advantage helps, pulleys included.
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thej
Jan 26, 2009, 4:22 AM
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On the back of my harness i keep a 48"dynex runner, and a prussic on a locker. These NEVER come off, and are all "expendable".
While there are plenty of situations where more gear would be needed, i feel comfortable enough that these things will do the job that I don't load up too many other things.
However, I tent to have more things on my harness, even single pitching I have an ATC (even if using a grigri), a prussic, a locking biner for them all, and an extra locker.
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shoo
Jan 26, 2009, 4:27 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: It probably seems excessive to most, but I have 3 pulleys, 4 prussiks, and 2 anchor setups on my harness at all times. >Cam
I really hope this is a joke.
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majid_sabet
Jan 26, 2009, 6:11 AM
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SELF RESCUE KIT List for Joe the climber
left/right jumar
prusiks ( four)
one small 8 plate
few locking biners
2 left and right aiders
2 sets of 7mm cord each 8 meter long
2 small PMP pulley
1 20 footer and 1 15 footer 1" webbing
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ShibbyShane
Jan 26, 2009, 6:31 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: SELF RESCUE KIT List for Joe the climber left/right jumar prusiks ( four) one small 8 plate few locking biners 2 left and right aiders 2 sets of 7mm cord each 8 meter long 2 small PMP pulley 1 20 footer and 1 15 footer 1" webbing
There's no way the average climber is going to carry all that shit on their harness. Maybe in a mountaineering situation, while doing some multi-pitch that will seriously challenge your abilities, or while big wall climbing... Well, I guess if you think your "average climber" does all of those things regularly.
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gunkiemike
Jan 26, 2009, 11:00 AM
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: shockabuku wrote: I think from a practical point you're being overly paranoid. I would rather be prepared for anything than get into a situation where I could do something about it, but can't because I didn't expect it to happen.
I think ascenders would be a bigger advantage in a dung-hits-fan situation than multiple pulleys. But prusiks work (if you're practiced with them), albeit slowly.
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Guran
Jan 26, 2009, 12:57 PM
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macblaze wrote: But I was wondering what you'all think is the minimum gear to have withing reach? I assume multipitch is less of an issue as I tend to carry an extra sling and biner even if I am just following but a single pitch... especially if its someplace easy...
You kind of answered your own question there.
Within reach, you need gear enough to safely escape the belay. (What that is might depend on actual belay of course)
Once that's done you can get to that pack 15 feet away, call/run for help or start rigging something creative.
But unless you can escape the belay, you're stuck right there.
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shockabuku
Jan 26, 2009, 1:23 PM
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: shockabuku wrote: I think from a practical point you're being overly paranoid. I would rather be prepared for anything than get into a situation where I could do something about it, but can't because I didn't expect it to happen.
You can't be prepared for anything (everything) or you'd never get off the ground.
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shockabuku
Jan 26, 2009, 1:26 PM
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Guran wrote: macblaze wrote: But I was wondering what you'all think is the minimum gear to have withing reach? I assume multipitch is less of an issue as I tend to carry an extra sling and biner even if I am just following but a single pitch... especially if its someplace easy... You kind of answered your own question there. Within reach, you need gear enough to safely escape the belay. (What that is might depend on actual belay of course) Once that's done you can get to that pack 15 feet away, call/run for help or start rigging something creative. But unless you can escape the belay, you're stuck right there.
If you're on the ground still, how is it that you can't move the 15' to get to your pack? Just let out some slack as you move and to to it. Or if you can't get to it your equipment should be right next to you anyway so you can grab it to take when you leave the ground. You people are inventing crises.
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