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abobo123
Dec 4, 2008, 2:44 AM
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Most of the Poison Ivy and other foliage invading the routes at stover is dead for the season. I'm thinking this might be a good time to get out there and do some cleaning. I think my next target is the upper pitch of Three Buttress, looks like there's a large P.I. bush at the top of it clogging the crack. And i remember Obnoxious Partner had a good bit of P.I. on the top of it over the summer. I've already cleaned some of the cramped thumb face, opening Afterburner and Higher Than I back up.
I'm wondering:
A. anyone have any objections?
B. Any suggestions for routes that could use cleaning?
C. Anyone want to help?
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adatesman
Dec 4, 2008, 2:55 AM
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The folks at Doylestown Rock Gym seem to be very involved with things at Stover, so you may want to give them a call to see if they've got anything in the works already.
That said, I'd probably be up for helping.... Drop me a PM if/when you want to go.
-aric.
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coolcat83
Dec 4, 2008, 3:42 AM
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abobo123 wrote: Most of the Poison Ivy and other foliage invading the routes at stover is dead for the season. I'm thinking this might be a good time to get out there and do some cleaning. I think my next target is the upper pitch of Three Buttress, looks like there's a large P.I. bush at the top of it clogging the crack. And i remember Obnoxious Partner had a good bit of P.I. on the top of it over the summer. I've already cleaned some of the cramped thumb face, opening Afterburner and Higher Than I back up. I'm wondering: A. anyone have any objections? B. Any suggestions for routes that could use cleaning? C. Anyone want to help?
In a couple weeks I'll be on break and would be up for some route cleaning. send me a pm and maybe we can arrange something.
edited to add, just because the ivy is dead doesn't mean the oil is all gone, so i'd still recommend gloves... found that out the hard way when i touched my garage wall that had ivy on it previously and was removed a month before.
(This post was edited by coolcat83 on Dec 4, 2008, 3:44 AM)
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abobo123
Dec 4, 2008, 10:51 PM
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Thanks for the heads up about the PI. I'm lucky enough to be one of those people who doesn't get it, but i try not to push my luck either. As the days are so short, going after work isn't an option for me, so I'm weekends only and it looks like the next two are shot on my calender. A big thing I'm after is what routes really need and are worth the effort?
I'm currently considering the rest of the cramped thumb face (already did higher than i/afterburner, that took a few hours), The upper pitches of 3 buttress, the top of The Geiger Sanction, and possibly around Obnoxious Partner (haven't really inspected that one but i recall some PI)
Any suggestions? Recall any routes you wanted to do this past year but didn't get on because they were too overgrown?
- Larry
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budman
Dec 5, 2008, 12:27 AM
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Nice to see someone taking the time. Did my tour there many moons ago. Particularly remember the climbs to the left of Tales. Ivy trees! Go for it. Toss it over the trail on to the talus near the creek. Caught a bunch of flack from climbers as I made trails and cleaned routes, guess they thought climbs start out clean and remain that way. Have friends that live near by. PM me and I'll get you in touch. Ever in Moab we'll shoot the S--- and climb cracks. Budman
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abobo123
Dec 5, 2008, 1:01 AM
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The trees are gone, don't know what happened to them; but the ivy was/is still there. That's the first (only thing so far) we've hit. Made a really good dent in the ivy up the middle. There's a nice path now about 15 feet wide, i'm pretty happy about that one, that was a huge wall inaccessible for leading. Still lots of dirt on it, but climbable. A few rainstorms should help it out. If i ever make it out that way, i'll take you up on the offer.
- Larry
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NJ_Climber
Dec 13, 2008, 8:41 PM
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I'm off for two weeks at the end of December if you need any help cleaning the routes.
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abobo123
Jan 6, 2009, 6:36 AM
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It's been a while since i started this post, And with the holidays in between, I haven't had much time to keep up with this. I'ld like to thank everyone for all the input, by the way.
I did manage get back to stover on sunday (the 4th) for an hour or so before nightfall, and I did a good walk-through with my camera and I've stitched together a pretty comprehensive photo repository of the cliffs from the lower trail. I'm missing a couple, and there's a few i'm not exactly sure if i've located correctly....
I've numbered the routes according to Doug Reilley's Guidebook, and tried to name the prominant route or wall along with each shot.
I've done this for two reasons, first off, as a way to document the condition of every route to find the ones to clean. And second, to make a kickin online guidebook with photo's of every route. I'ld eventually like to have routelines put on all the pictures and get them put on this site, but for now, it's a work in progress.
The photos are here if you'ld like to give them a browse and find something to help clean or if you would like to have a go at marking up some routes.
http://public.fotki.com/...ralph-stover-guide-/
(note that as of my writing this, there's over an hour left till the upload of the photo's completes)
A quick, incomplete, and possibly inaccurate list of routes that might need a cleaning:
013 - Upper pitches of Neolithic Block (probably a waste of time)
025 - Loose Block (and possibly New Generation)
027 - Cramped Thumb (really this whole face)
031 - Higher Than I (Lower Pitch)
032 - Three Buttress (Upper pitches (maybe)
034 - Open Book (Access for TR'ing Deans and Tales from the cactus ledge)
042-043 - riff raff and zig zag (maybe... )
The lower section of the garden of eden--- and maybe the upper too.
047 - Orangutang (looks a little growthy in the pictures)
051 - Green Grungy Thing (Vines! wouldn't want to top that out)
052 - Garden of Eden (The climb, not the ledge)
069 - Hawks Nest - Second Pitch (This is atrocious... filled with dirt and rusted pitons - probably not even possible to clean)
081 - The Geiger Santion (Lots of vines at the top. I couldn't find a way to TR it over the summer)
086 - Epitaph (maybe, lots of PI near it)
And lastly, I talked to Dana at Doylestown R.G. who's looking into some rap hangers on the Higher Than I ledge.
Perhaps if there's a decently warm day (35F + with sun) in the coming weekends I'll get back there. Anyone still interested?
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suilenroc
Jan 6, 2009, 7:03 AM
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Nice work... But I'm more interested in the amount of P.I. you got...?
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abobo123
Jan 6, 2009, 12:56 PM
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None.... But then again i've never gotten poison ivy... not that I intentionally roll around in the stuff... I think i'm immune.
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iron106
Jan 6, 2009, 3:51 PM
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You can still get PI even on the dead branches. At least I do. Here is some info on how to do it correctly.
http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=457
http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=562
Put up the date. We will try to get people out. Rock gyms and EMS are good places to get the word out.
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tylerandapril
Jan 6, 2009, 4:15 PM
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WARNING! I grew up in Okla on a farm and hanging around lakes and rivers and never got PI until a few years ago. I thought I was immune too.
A few years ago we went climbing at Quartz and got into some. OMFG it was the worst experience I have ever had! We are talking full body. Just because you have never had it, dooes not mean you are immune.
Tyler
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adatesman
Jan 6, 2009, 4:42 PM
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I've read its a cumulative exposure kind of thing.... You might not get it the first time or the next, but eventually you will have a reaction.
BTW, the reaction is due to the urishiol oil in the plant binding to the cell walls of your skin, which causes them to become leaky. So long as you don't damage the plant (bruise the leaves, break the stems, etc) the urishiol won't be released (for lack of a better term) and there's less chance of being exposed. This is why its better to clear PI in the winter.... the plants are dormant (less sap) and the easily-damaged leaves are gone.
Oh, and the urishiol is not water soluable, so rinsing doesn't help other than spreading it around. It is oil soluable though, so washing with mineral spirits works wonders immediately after exposure (check out the primary ingredient of Technu). I've heard that alcohol works as well (think hand cleaner, not Wild Turkey), but so far haven't had much success with it.
If you can't tell, I tend to get it really, really bad and have done quite a bit of research on the subject. 
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djlachelt
Jan 6, 2009, 5:20 PM
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Thanks for your contribution to the climbing community.
In reply to: I've done this for two reasons, first off, as a way to document the condition of every route to find the ones to clean. And second, to make a kickin online guidebook with photo's of every route. I'ld eventually like to have routelines put on all the pictures and get them put on this site, but for now, it's a work in progress.
I don't know if this would be useful for you or not, but you might check out http://wikitopo.com/ as a way to document the routes. A few nice things about it:
* it is collaborative (thus the wiki)
* the images aren't static pics with lines on them, the route lines are overlays that can be adjusted, removed, etc.
Just a thought - I have no vested interest in topowiki.
You could put the route description and overview pictures here at RC... then link to topowiki for the detailed route pictures.
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moose_droppings
Jan 6, 2009, 6:55 PM
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Poison ivy is an oil. Washing with Dawn dish washing detergent is best and used as soon as you get home. It won't prevent it, but it sure as heck will make it less severe.
PS, It didn't use to effect me either till I was well into my 40's.
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kyleshea
Jan 6, 2009, 7:04 PM
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there are many types of pi. some people are responsive to some and not others. i have never gotten pi from touching it, but im still careful. there are several different types at stover. the oil takes quite a while to get into the skin. the body's natural skin oils are the first line of defense against pi, and if the oils are washed off within a few hours (for people who are not extremely allergic) no rash will occur. but my aunt used to get pi from airborne particles though, just from being downwind in the summer.
also, baking soda is supposed to neutralize the acids in the urushiol(sp) oil, i have a friend that washes with it after being exposed just to make sure.
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CaptainWaterproof
Jan 7, 2009, 12:48 PM
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djlachelt wrote: Thanks for your contribution to the climbing community. In reply to: I've done this for two reasons, first off, as a way to document the condition of every route to find the ones to clean. And second, to make a kickin online guidebook with photo's of every route. I'ld eventually like to have routelines put on all the pictures and get them put on this site, but for now, it's a work in progress. I don't know if this would be useful for you or not, but you might check out http://wikitopo.com/ as a way to document the routes. A few nice things about it: * it is collaborative (thus the wiki) * the images aren't static pics with lines on them, the route lines are overlays that can be adjusted, removed, etc. Just a thought - I have no vested interest in topowiki. You could put the route description and overview pictures here at RC... then link to topowiki for the detailed route pictures.
If you need any help give us a shout.
Oh - and thanks for the mention djlachelt!
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abobo123
Jan 9, 2009, 2:42 AM
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Thanks for the advice, I'll drop by and give it a look when i have some more time. I was actually interested in starting a wiki on it, and was looking for free wiki services when i was putting the pictures on my photo site. Now that i know yours, I'll definitely be putting them up there.
- this weekend isn't looking promising for any adventures in stover cleaning. Cold and snow. I'll be gym climbing.
- Larry
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CaptainWaterproof
Jan 9, 2009, 9:45 AM
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Great stuff Larry! I look forward to keeping in touch.
Charles
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abobo123
Jan 10, 2009, 6:04 AM
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Charles;
Thanks for the advice, the site seems pretty handy. I think it has alot of potential.
Everyone;
I've started putting the pictures and route descriptions up here http://wikitopo.com/crag.php?cragId=305 if anyone would like to help by filling out some route lines and descriptions. I've numbered the photos according to the route numbers in Reilley's guidebook.
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iron106
Jan 13, 2009, 4:12 PM
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LOOKS GREAT!
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pink_flamingo
Feb 5, 2009, 2:01 PM
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If you're concerned about Poison Ivy oils (because you should be), you can always pick up a white tyvek protective suit from home depot for a few bucks, and suit up. Tape your gloves to the sleeves, and not only will you be stylin' like the EPA, but you'll be guaranteed rash-free when the day is done.
Wish Ralph Stover was a bit closer to me; i'd love to help. Good luck with the work.
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Adk
Feb 5, 2009, 2:14 PM
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Good luck with the PI. About 13% of US population does not have a reaction to it yet you can lose your immunity at any time.
I am one that can yank on it, eat it, grind body parts in it etc and not get it. My grandmother was the same way as well until she reached about 80 years old. Then she got hammered one day while pulling it.
Do it while you can because one day you may not able to do it again.
Cudos to your ambition to this route cleaning
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